Crescent cymbals... AKA Screw all you meaningless peons?

Sparkboss

Senior Member
So as most of you know there was a fallout between the makers of bosphorus cymbals and micheal vosbein along with his syndicate minions. I say it this way as i can no longer go un-bias.

As i was scanning facebook i noticed that they had posted some information about how they do their endorsements and to whom. While reading through this, i fully understood that they would want established musicians, which makes sense in a business perspective. However what i didn't quite understand is their offensive words toward a man that pointed out that the lower un-established musicians seem to not mean anything but sales to this company and how they are un willing to make an investment in younger, promising musicians.. Anyway enough blabbering about this. Here is their post

"The most common questions center around endorsements. Some companies will sign children. Some companies sign artists mainly as a sales mechanism. We sign brand ambassadors who have distinguished themselves professionally. Almost all of them buy their cymbals at a discount. Here are some of the things we look for in endorsing artists:

Coverage in national industry media
Industry magazine cover story
Media reader's poll winner...
Played on Grammy winning recording
Multiple recordings as a band leader
Touring extensively as band leader
Endorsements with well known companies
Regularly touring or recording with internationally recognized artists
Published author of nationally distributed drum instruction book or DVD
Full time faculty position at college or university level"


After reading through it a second time it does seem a bit irrational, especially for such a new company that only exists because they had a falling out with a better established company... not to mention Crescent cymbals, more specifically Micheal vosbein had some pretty harsh words to say about his former counterparts at Bosphorus cymbals. But the most offensive portion was how he claims that a, now former, fan's view on this was angry and irrational. If you've got them on your facebook you can check it out - their whole tone just seems arrogant and insensitive.

I wasn't 100% which faction i was going to side with. but as this is about the third time i've noticed the crescent cymbal family stirring up trouble without being interrogated first.... I have to say that i'm siding with Bosphorus now, and i think i know the true story behing their falling out.


Anywho, just a few heated words from me - Anybody else have an opinion on this matter?
 
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Seems pretty standard endorsement criteria, give or take.

Pre-youtube, you could have a record out on a major label, and still not get an endorsement because the companies wanted to know a person would stick.

I recall in the 80's, the drummer touring with MC Hammer couldn't get an endorsement to save his life even though he was playing the biggest stages, because all the majors thought MC Hammer's career would soon fizzle.

It's only been in recent years that any kid with a youtube account and a credit card could get a faux-endorsment.
 
I get that they want somebody to be established. But with ALL those criteria? I feel like god barely qualifies.

Perhaps i should change the title though, took another glance and it seems too flashy!

Could a mod help me change it to "Crescent cymbals... GOOD LUCK endorsements" heheh
 
We kind of just had this conversation over here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109367

I don't think there's a cymbal company in the world who doesn't want people to buy their wares. It' seems to me to me that this small, starting-up company was making very clear what their standards are for endorsement, and the respondent got lathered up in what I would consider to be an unprofessional way.

I'm a businessman myself (graphic design) and if I gave away my product for free to anyone who asked, I'd be out of business in no time. I don't see any reason why any other business should be taken to task for standing by that basic principle of making profit.

If you want to be on a company's promoting endorser list, put in the time and get to that level. It's usually a short list for a reason. I have been playing for close to 30 years, 15 of those professionally, on three continents, and have never once considered approaching any company for endorsement consideration, because I do not fall into these sort of categories; I know it, and it seems like I have better things to worry about.

By the way, here's the comment thread from FB - you be the judge.
 

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I didn't find the listed criteria too offensive at all. If I was looking for someone to endorse my product, I would want them to tick most of those boxes.

Would you want someone on your roster that nobody knows? What's the point of that?

We seem to have gone way past the point where things---endorsements in this case--are earned. That's what happens when everyone gets an award growing up. You end up with an inflated sense of entitlement. You want an endorsement? Then do something to earn it. Write a book, learn to write/produce songs, use your talent/gifts to teach others, get and keep steady employment, etc. I don't see why that's so hard to understand today.

Would I like it if Vic Firth gave me a brick of sticks every time I asked or if I got a pallet of Aquarian heads every year? Sure. But it wouldn't do the company any good to give me gear other than the fact that I would come on here and tell everyone how awesome they are. But I already do that anyway.

So don't get mad at Crescent for having high standards for their endorsements. I think every company should.
 
Note to Crescent- hire someone with a brain to do public relations.

I get their point - they do not want to give endorsement deals to everyone (as some companies do just to drum up sales to those endorsers). They just express their opinion in a pompous annoying way. I suspect that facebook posting just cost them more sales than most of their endorsers generate.

Bosphorus cymbals were great and are still great. Haven't tried any Crescent cymbals yet.
 
I didn't find the listed criteria too offensive at all. If I was looking for someone to endorse my product, I would want them to tick most of those boxes.

Would you want someone on your roster that nobody knows? What's the point of that?

We seem to have gone way past the point where things---endorsements in this case--are earned. That's what happens when everyone gets an award growing up. You end up with an inflated sense of entitlement. You want an endorsement? Then do something to earn it. Write a book, learn to write/produce songs, use your talent/gifts to teach others, get and keep steady employment, etc. I don't see why that's so hard to understand today.

Would I like it if Vic Firth gave me a brick of sticks every time I asked or if I got a pallet of Aquarian heads every year? Sure. But it wouldn't do the company any good to give me gear other than the fact that I would come on here and tell everyone how awesome they are. But I already do that anyway.

So don't get mad at Crescent for having high standards for their endorsements. I think every company should.

I concur with all of this. I do think though that this may of been more appropriate handled offline / behind the scenes. Just professionalism.

All this said, I suck and am not qualified for any sort of endorsement deal of any product.

By the way, I use Bosphorus Cymbals and love them immensely! I'd never in a million years qualify for an endorsement nor would I ask for one.
 
Deals with companies are a privilege, not a right. Unfortunately a lot of companies seem to use the 'e' word for their mainstream sales and confuse the issue for everybody.

Crescent need a new media officer. Badly.

EDIT:

What I posted wasn't clear. Crescent are probably acting reasonably - at least what they say is basically reasonable but by aiming it at an individual, it comes across as heavy-handed. I won't blame him for responding to the poster directly in the last incident though because it became personal.

Sparkboss - what are your views on this? Crescent are making it clear that they are not Soultone. As far as I'm concerned, that's just fine.
 
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+1.I agree with all of this.There are upstart companys out there who focus on the under 25 and teen market .that all think they can get and endorcement deal ,when all their getting is a discoulnt on an already inflated retail price....

And all this for a bunch of cymbals your paying in advance for.You can't play or even hear them in person,so you're relying on a sound file,that may or may not be EQ'd to death

They also lure these kids my telling then the'll put their name on their artist roster.........big friggin deal.

Who sees that except other kids looking to "be endorced"..They don't even understand that ....they are the one who endorces the company/product,and NOT the other way around.

I think Cresent is taking a stand here on the same issue.Saying that some companys will sign children is spot on.These children,are getting the soultone type of discount,name on artist roster deal.

They want a professional recognized well know artist to endorce their cymbals and act as an ambassador for their instruments.

That is perfect business PR and Sales tactics to me.They know who they want to represent their product...and all others need not apply.

As far as investing in up and comming young musicians;that's a great way to go broke,because in the biz,your here today,and gone tomorrow.

One hit wonders anyone?

Very few have the talent and staying power to be a force in the world of music.

Steve B.
 
I get that they want somebody to be established. But with ALL those criteria? I feel like god barely qualifies.

No where does it state or imply one has to have ALL those criteria.

It says
Here are some of the things we look for in endorsing artists:

As long as a drummer has ONE or more of those things, they can be considered.

Which, for the most part, is pretty standard minimum threshold required to be considered.
 
Ive got a term for the people at Crescent cymbals, I call them jazz nazis...And that certainly is a den of them over there...Yeah, Ive only got two real peeves with anyone, jazz naziism and hipsters which account for many of the people I encounter.
 
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The history of cymbal making is full of falling outs. Both Bosphorus and Crescent make cymbals I like. I own both.
 
To me the respondents first comment about not giving endorsements to " bread and butter" folks makes plenty of sense. Why would they. Someone who plays in pubs(small venues) and talks them up to their friends should get an endorsement. Please. My criteria would be high also. a bar band playing in front of drunks and locals every night will not be getting the exposure I would want if they were my brand.
Sounds like if you give me a huge discount then I'll buy and play your cymbals. I've been driving a Ford car for 15 years, they've never given me crap. No expectations, no disappointments.
 
This all sounds like sour grapes (mixed with a little religion lol).

Not personally directed at OP but anybody looking to endorsers for free or discounted stuff.

Save your money, buy your cymbals, play them, get good, get better. That an investment in yourself. THEN maybe somebody will ask you for your name.
But even if not, isn't it supposed to be about the music, and the drumming, and not just shopping a name on an endorsement page and possible freebies?
 
I think I'll go practice........ Terry
 
What? A company requires a semblance of a profile before they'll consider a deal? Perish the thought!!

Has this been happening long?

And do christians get free gear, or am I reading this wrong?
 
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