Snare level too loud.

Here is the issue I have. My snare is too loud. Doesn't matter what snare I use , the band members complained that it is "killing them ".
I am looking for ways to lower the decibel levels of it . It it a rock/heavy rock cover band (Alice in chains, tool, slither type music). Kit is a yamaha moto-X tour custom ,all maple. Snare is what comes with it with Aquarian high energy head and medium tension , with a small Evans ring on it.
I cut down some by not using rimshots anymore . But they say it is still too loud.
They want the energy up and entertainment (think Halestorm/pop evil drummers) but don't want the loud snare. I cannot play without energy and soft at the same time.....
If it was a jazz gig with brushes , wouldn't be a problem but I just can't play "crazy bitch" or "killing in the name" like I would play girl from ipanema in a restaurant.
I am looking for ways to lower the decibel level of the snare (toms are ok , they don't cut as much) and please don't tell me "hit softer".
Thank you in advance and I am looking forward to fixing that

Tell them that is what earplugs are for.

Have you tried gaffa tape on top/underside of the skin?
I've seen some weird stuff done to snares before, one guy had a soft toy (paddington bear) in the drum itself for "shits & giggles"
You can also get like a clear plastic ring that goes over the outside rim of snare (and other drums) it helps soften the impact on ye'old ear drum. Altho the ear plugs idea is good, or tell em to stick it and leave the band for another group who understand drums can unfortunately be loud on occasion.

"Tell them that is what ear plugs are for". I did tell them that (I am the only one wearing ear protection ) the bass player said he can't hear with those things on ....
I was thinking about buying everyone a pair of "etymotic er-20" which is what I use and see if it would work better for them but it would make me look a little pompous as in "all of you try that instead of me "fixing it".

Uhhh....don't hit it so hard?

Whoops....I wasn't supposed to tell you that



The snare is the loudest instrument on the planet and it is often too loud.

Ease up, loosen the head and/or strike the head closer to the rim..

Altho the ear plugs idea is good, or tell em to stick it and leave the band for another group who understand drums can unfortunately be loud on occasion.

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Well, there is some really bad advice. A band makes music together and generally, it doesn't revolve around the drums. Everyone has to play their part properly in order for the music to sound right. When band members share offer input, it's part of our job to listen and learn.

There's a not a whole lot for you to fix.Acoustic drums are inherently LOUD instruments.You can muffle to an extent,but you eventually hit a point where you'll muffle all the tone out of a drum,and then,you might as well be hitting a cardboard box.

I think,that the're just not used to the sound of live acoustic drums,and they think that drums will sound, just like they do on a record,which is controlled,gated,compressed and perfectly mixed with the band.That's just not reality.

I'm curious as to just how much experience and amplification the band has.Are they playing through like 3 watt Messa Boogie amps,with no PA?

I've played in a bad where we had a tiny PA,and the amps were no more than 25 watts,and there was NEVER an issue with me playng too loud.

Steve B

With all due respect...if the guys are saying "you're killing me"...listen to them. It sounds like you are simply playing too darn loud, hitting way too hard. You may even be messing the mix up with too much volume. It's a complete myth that you can't have energy at lower volumes. Complete myth. You are just not secure with giving less than 100 percent. You are deluding yourself in that you feel you need to smash the drums. You don't. Stop thinking that lol.

If you try hitting at half the power, it won't sound nearly as bad as you fear. In fact, you might discover that you have some headroom now. Volume does not equal energy. Repeat, volume does not equal energy, really it doesn't. It's a big mental adjustment for sure, and it will take some time to get comfy with. But it will pay huge dividends in the form of other musicians liking your touch and wanting you for their band.

Have faith. It will sound a lot better than you think, even better than it does right now I'll wager. You do have to reign yourself in. I think most drummers have to pass through this door on their way to becoming effective players. Drums are so loud and powerful. A good drummer knows how to manage all that power. Don't mistake volume for intensity or energy.

You just need to deliberately play less hard, and be secure in the fact that the only thing you are losing is volume. It's all in your head if you think your playing will lose energy. Your playing won't lose energy, it will gain maturity. But first you have to be secure with it.
When you are in an outdoor situation, you can probably hit them as hard as you want. But a drummer really needs to have the ability to adjust their volume for the room that they are playing in. A smaller room with all hard surfaces is one of the harder situations to adjust to. But if you don't you will BLOW EVERYONE OUT OF THE ROOM. Is that what you want?

Have you recorded yourself with this band in a gig situation? Maybe if you heard yourself from a different POV, it will give you a different perspective. Maybe you'll realize that you could stand to lose a little volume. Reverse the situation. Imagine if the others were making YOUR ears bleed. You'd want them to adjust. That's all they are asking. Don't complicate it, learn the new skill.

drum4fun27302 said:

I cut down some by not using rimshots anymore . But they say it is still too loud.

They want the energy up and entertainment (think Halestorm/pop evil drummers) but don't want the loud snare. I cannot play without energy and soft at the same time.....

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Ironically, it's the rimshots that will save you here.

It's easy to play softer and keep energy, but the drums always sound like they're being played softly, and of course sound different - typically, not so good - as a result.

First order of business to help you is use lighter sticks. Not rods, they're not quiet 'sticks' like many drummers want to believe. Get a thin stick with some length. The volume will be cut, and the length gives you a nice feel so you're not compromising your playing style too much. I like the Vic Firth AJ5, it's like a long 7A although only available in wood tip (for those Jazz types, you know...)

Then, tune your drums a little higher, so they respond and project better with a lighter touch*, and catch some rim on the snare. The drums won't really be louder, they'll just sound like it, and the snare will convey all the energy and cut you desire without relying strictly on volume. You may want to consider lighter cymbals as well, so they blend better with your modified style and volume.

I use those thinner sticks on just about every local gig I do, and with tuning and technique, it sounds like I'm beating the hell out of the kit, while actually reducing my volume, and not having to expend so much energy. Nice to walk away from a night of playing without all the sweat!

Good luck,

Bermuda

* Head choices will help with attack as well, a clear batter cuts better than a coated at lower volume, but again, only if the head is tuned up a bit and allowed to sing a little.

Rimshots can be played at any volume. I have a twice a month gig where I NEED to play soft. I still play rimshots most of the night, just real quietly. I play rimshots for the added shell tone and ring, not volume. If you drop the volume of the rest of the kit, and still keep the rimshot tone in there, albeit quiet rimshots, the drums retain all the perceived energy compared to the higher volumes.

simply play lighter. the question is have you *tried* to play lighter?

I appreciate all the inputs. My girlfriend recorded last night and I have to look at videos (done done so yet ).
Here is a set up we have. Pa with 2 15s and 2 18 subs. Snake , 3 monitors , 2 guitar players have Mesa boogie heads with 2x 4 cabs (not a guitar player but one of those 4 speaker in a cab Marshall boxes). Bass player has a big ampeg thingy.
My cymbals were quick beats 14s , 1 20 K custom ride , 1 18 A medium thin crash and 1 18 k dark thin crash. My sticks are vater rock.

I like longer and heavier/full sticks and msy have to switch to something lighter (still need to be longer then 16 inches though ). I used to play the Vic firth 5A extreme but they just break so fast . I am 6'3" and 16" sticks just feel "empty".

drum4fun, it seems as though you don't want to take the time to learn how to use proper technique and play at different volume levels. Breaking sticks is not the sticks fault unless you bought a faulty pair.

Agree with everyone who says that playing intensity does not equate to volume. Also, in further developing your snare drum technique, you'll see that rimshots are not necessarily done with one single technique but several possiblities, all of which affect volume, sound nuance and intensity.

A low stroke, push/pull sort of technique in rimshots can equal a very subtle "crack" that doesn't melt faces.

I believe my snare technique should be adequate. I have been playing for a long , long time , Berklee graduate from "92 , bla-bla bla. What I am trying to say is that I am not a "newbie".
Vf sticks break from the constant rimshots (and no, they aren't all loud rimshots) just that when metal hits wood, wood is going to lose.

I looked up vater's catalog following betmuda's advice and it looks like the "7A stretch" might do the trick (same length as the rock but much lighter).
I am going to work on playing "not as hard" With those sticks and see what it does.

Re: Snare level too loud.
simply play lighter. the question is have you *tried* to play lighter?
__________________
Louis
Yes , I can play with peter erskine sticks or brushes (what I use for jazz gigs) on my yamaha rick marotta hipgig but that is not the style being played with this band.

One good way is not to play rimshots because it's very piercing but anyway I agree with Larry

the volume from their half stacks is probably blowing their knees apart.Meanwhile,up at ear level, I will bet they are oblivious to how loud THEY are.
Rock band volume wars 101. My guy's amps are set on stun and they complain about my snare all the time. The recordings sound fine. I'm even buried a bit.

Re: Snare level too loud.

drum4fun27302;1202908 Vf sticks break from the constant rimshots[/QUOTE said:

Only VF sticks break...got it.

I have found out that the vater wood last much longer the the vf wood, given the same stick size , so I stick with vater

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On a lot recordings, especially the sort of music you've referenced, the snare will usually be high in the mix. Solid, pronounced backbeat and all that. Generally speaking, the balance of a recorded kit should be what you're going for - often including loud(ish) snare. You need to hear it from the audience perspective. It might be super loud on stage but just right to the listener. Of course, if it's too loud out front, then you've got to take steps to fix it.

Have you thought that it might not be the volume but rather the pitch/frequency the snare sits at that could be the problem? If it's cranked quite high, it'll really cut. Not just through the mix but right through the ears, too! Try detuning a little bit, stick a bit of moongel on the head and see how that fares.

Are mic'ing it at all? Might seem super stupid obvious but don't mic it if it doesn't need it....?

Audix d6 on the 24 kick and sm57 as overhead but the sound guy said that he muted the overhead and it was just the kick going thru the pa