Endorsement players playing other brands.

T

The Old Hyde

Guest
last nigh i booked a band to open for us and the drummer has several endorsment deals. sticks, cymbals, heads and i think drums. anyway he agreed to play my kit to avoid changing over between bands. he liked my kit but at the last min wanted to change to his brand of cymbals. no problem really but his reason was that he didnt want to be seen playing any other brand that he didnt endorse and was afriad someone would see a picture of it. this gig, and their band fro that matter is not going to be on the cover of rollingstone or anything so it struck me as a little over the top reasoning. he doesnt endore Ludwig but played my Luddies so why bother to change the cymbals?? any of you guys out there with deals, and maybe Bermuda has a thought on this, play a non endorsed brand while sitting in and not worry about repercussions?
 
It depends entirely on the agreement between artist & manufacturer. I can only assume that his cymbal company was tighter in terms of expectations than his drum company. Most companies accept that there are occasionally backline situations that can't be avoided, but expect due dilligence from the artist in terms of exposure potential.

What happens behind closed doors in the recording studio is a whole different matter however ;)
 
I'm curious about this current type of “endorsement” deal— the ones that are really more of a “customer” deal, where you agree to buy their products at a slight discount— are those generally supposed to be exclusive? Anybody know?
 
It could have also been he liked his cymbal sounds more than yours and it was easier to blame an endorsement deal instead of having to deal with a sound preference issue head-on.

I know for myself as long as I have my ride and hi hats I can be comfortable on just about any kit and cymbals are an easy enough switch.
 
Winston_Wolf said:
It could have also been he liked his cymbal sounds more than yours and it was easier to blame an endorsement deal instead of having to deal with a sound preference issue head-on.

I know for myself as long as I have my ride and hi hats I can be comfortable on just about any kit and cymbals are an easy enough switch.
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well maybe but he didnt even hear them before switching them out.
 
keep it simple said:
It depends entirely on the agreement between artist & manufacturer. I can only assume that his cymbal company was tighter in terms of expectations than his drum company. Most companies accept that there are occasionally backline situations that can't be avoided, but expect due dilligence from the artist in terms of exposure potential.

What happens behind closed doors in the recording studio is a whole different matter however ;)
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I agree with Andy, from what I've seen. I've seen a lot of jazz artists in particular use a variety of different drum kits. For example, Jason Marsalis is a Mapex endorser, but see him live or YouTube him and he's playing Yamaha, Gretsch, Fibes, etc., just as often if not more than Mapex. Matt Wilson endorses Craviotto, but I saw him play at Blues Alley using the house Maryland Drums Co. kit. And I believe I read in Modern Drummer or Drum! once that Brann Dailor of Mastodon used some Slingerland drums or Gretsch drums when recording even though he endorses Tama and usually plays Tama at live shows.

Sometimes it comes down to venue and equipment availability, and Andy's definitely right about recording studios--you never know what type of kit is being used!
 
Swapping out the entire kit was obviously just too difficult. And no-one can see the heads and sticks but the player himself anyway. Whereas cymbals are very easy for the audience to sight and probably the most notable should he have his photo taken. They are also far easier to swap out than anything else you've mentioned (save for sticks, but as I said...who can see 'em anyway?)

If he was on my roster, I'd be pretty damned happy with him. He's made every effort to do the best he could given the circumstances. What more could I ask for?
 
I always prefer to play my own gear, or at least my own brand. There are a few levels of importance on this, such as with Al - for whom my endorsements are primarily based - where there's really no wiggle room on the concept. Except in extreme, dire circumstances, I play my brands, period. There have been a handful of times in 30 years of TV and touring where I was convinced that I should play the competitor's products. But, that's been a while, I think the last time I played a non-endorsed brand with Al was in early 1991 for a TV show where we played 2 songs.

But I infer a little leeway on gigs with my local bands, and there have been times I'll use a house kit, or another drummer's gear. But that's only on a tiny percentage of the gigs I do, maybe 1%, and on everything else I bring my Ludwigs, Sabians, etc.

Is a pro going to lose their deal because he was seen with a competitor's product? Depending on the circumstances and how much/little exposure that gig provides, it's normally not a problem.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
I think the last time I played a non-endorsed brand with Al was in early 1991 for a TV show where we played 2 songs.
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Question for you. In this case and assuming enough time permitted, would something as crafty as just swapping the bass drum batter or even placing a sticker or decal with the endorsed brand logo on the front of the drum suffice enough to keep the company happy? Obviously not enough to fool anyone who was really looking, but certainly enough for the average punter on a gig with such a high level of exposure, I would have thought.
 
bermuda said:
Is a pro going to lose their deal because he was seen with a competitor's product? Depending on the circumstances and how much/little exposure that gig provides, it's normally not a problem.
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Good point as well. Obviously if Dave Weckl records a new live DVD with a bunch of Zildjian pies there's going to be more issues than if a less-known Sabian guy has to play a pub gig with Mehmets.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
Question for you. In this case and assuming enough time permitted, would something as crafty as just swapping the bass drum batter or even placing a sticker or decal with the endorsed brand logo on the front of the drum suffice enough to keep the company happy?
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That's a bit un-Kosher. In those situations, it's preferrable to simply cover the name on the head with gaff tape, and in some cases the drummer may also cover the badges. Obviously the lugs and hardware tends to give away the brand to an observant drummer, but it's better to not show a name at all, than to flaunt a different name on the drums... lest such a photo comes back to haunt you for the rest of your career. :)

carmine.jpg
 
bermuda said:
but it's better to not show a name at all, than to flaunt a different name on the drums... lest such a photo comes back to haunt you for the rest of your career.
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Well, it didn't seem to hurt his ability to play Pearl, I mean Premier, uh, make that Mapex, no wait, I mean Ddrum.
 
here is a video I filmed on my phone while studying with Peter Erskine of him playing on a Craviotto kit that he had just purchased and was extremely excited about.

the kit was shipped to Cleveland where we were studying and I was right next to him when he unboxed it .....he was literally like a child on Christmas......rubbing his hands together saying ...oh boy oh boy oh boy !!!


wait til I get a hold of DW ....Mr. Erskine is in trouuuuuuuuuuuble.....

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duufHWM-9hU
 
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