MYTH or not: DRUMS NEED TO BE LOUD !!!

A

arsalanxaidi

Member
ok i'm really angry (confused) right now actually.

first off, i've started off drumming almost over a year ago. i had a gig yesterday. and i knw that we did really well. one of the songs was a slow one and one was fast. thats all, 2 songs. a guy today comes up with me, with some musical experience, telling me i need to play LOUDER. as in BANG the drums.... i mean wtf??? is this supposed to make a difference in a mic-ed situation???

i personally think if i'm playing normal rock (hard and soft) and not heavy metal, then is it not alrite that if i can do the job hitting the drums in a normal fashion (not BANG them and not too lightly, but just a normal swing of a hand, id rather say something in between BANG and a normal hit), then whats wrong with it??

is it not the sound person's job to see if i'm banging too hard, then he lowers it all to make sure that all the instruments are on the same sound level or are gelling well or if one of them is too low in sound, then to increase it????

i'm sure if i BANG the drums, then i'm trying to become the WHOLE instead of contributing towards it. am i wrong at this?????
 
Spam must be..............?
 

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Ian Williams said:
Spam must be..............?
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It's not spam, it's more of a out of place blog.

But in all seriousness, yes, sometimes it needs to be loud.

Even with mics sometimes the attack just isn't there if you don't hit hard. I actually play way louder than I would ever want to be in the mix simply because I can't get the attack/sharpness from playing at a lower volume. In your case, you don't necessarily have to smash the drums, but at least give a good amount of force into it.
 
arsalanxaidi said:
first off, i've started off drumming almost over a year ago.
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So, right there, you're probably not dealing with "mature, veteran, musicians". So many cats simply make up for a lack of talent, with volume.​
These guys you "auditioned" for, they're probably more concerned with image rather than substance. And so, if that's the gig, and you really, really, really want it .... then ya gotta step up to the plate and slam like Tommy Lee.​
Personally, I'd probably just look for a more mature group of cats to gig with.​
 
I'd say that it depends on the band. For some bands, or "acts", especially in rock, a certain mojo and power is expected. For better or worse, even if your sticking every beat in just the right spot (no micro timing issues), if it looks like you're phoning it in, then you're not playing your role, despite that you're playing your part.

Little rock story: I've only ever seen Pearl Jam once, and they weren't even Pearl Jam yet. In fact, it was their first show ever. Dave Krusen was the original drummer and he wasn't hitting hard at all, but the rest of the band were clearly and physically into it, so Dave's performance looked out of place. He just wasn't matching their energy.

But he sounds great on "10".

The other thing that comes to mind is that while soundmen can turn you up (or down), the sound of your drums and cymbals won't be the same at lower vs. louder volumes. Cymbals open up faster if you hit them harder and drums get punchier. I've heard of recording engineers and producers insisting that the drummer pound as hard as they can without messing with the groove because they wanted more pitch bend from the toms and a more aggressive attack sound all around.

I'd work on learning to play both loud and quiet. Chalk it up to another dynamic tool at your disposal.
 
please see the attached video as well, ANY sort of feedback will really really help...
 

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first off, this was my first live gig and as much as i hate it, i didn't really get to tune my drums again as, i dont know if it happens with everyone, but in the last week, i'v been shifting my drums a lot from one place to another, which puts the tuning all out.

before the gig, i didn't really get time to do that, especially my snare i guess sounds bad.

anyways, did i need to be more attacking in this song or what?? should i be hitting a bit stronger than i am???
 
IMHO, there is no excuse for playing loudly. If the "musicians" around you play so loud as to cover you up you should be amplified. My opinion.
 
Nope, drums don't NEED to be loud all the time, but you should know how to play loud when the situation demands it.

About the video: looks like you didn't have monitors, and the Front-of-house speakers were way in front of you. Right?
 
After watching that video, it doesn't seem like your band requires a loud drummer at all. In fact, I think it would probably just draw attention away from the singer, which is where the attention should be focused.
 
MikeM said:
After watching that video, it doesn't seem like your band requires a loud drummer at all.
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I totally agree. You gotta "U2 type" situation here, you guys ain't playing "Megadeth" .... Now, I don't know that kinda venue (how big, numbers of people, etc) you had there, but, seems to me "everything" was crunked up too loud, and distorting. Vocals are key (for this song, anyways) .... and so the drums and guitar need to be "under" the vocals. Support. You guys ain't playing Motorhead, where "everything is louder than everything else".​
Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pau8Zf7srlU there's times to be loud .... and then there's times to NOT BE LOUD.​
 
makinao said:
Nope, drums don't NEED to be loud all the time, but you should know how to play loud when the situation demands it.

About the video: looks like you didn't have monitors, and the Front-of-house speakers were way in front of you. Right?
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i dont have a clue about the front-of-house speakers. how do they make a difference?? (as mentioned, it was my first real mic-ed gig)
 
makinao said:
Nope, drums don't NEED to be loud all the time, but you should know how to play loud when the situation demands it.

About the video: looks like you didn't have monitors, and the Front-of-house speakers were way in front of you. Right?
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and no, the sound guy didn't have monitors either. now how does that make a difference again?? :s (sorry :p)
 
harryconway said:
I totally agree. You gotta "U2 type" situation here, you guys ain't playing "Megadeth" .... Now, I don't know that kinda venue (how big, numbers of people, etc) you had there, but, seems to me "everything" was crunked up too loud, and distorting. Vocals are key (for this song, anyways) .... and so the drums and guitar need to be "under" the vocals. Support. You guys ain't playing Motorhead, where "everything is louder than everything else".​
Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pau8Zf7srlU there's times to be loud .... and then there's times to NOT BE LOUD.​
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i am getting the point here. but we are actually trying a lot of different things right now, a lot of different covers that we can do. but one thing i'm sure of that i or my band members are NOT doing Megadeath type music in the near future to say the least. so theres not chance of that.

and hey guys, i would reallly appreciate some more feedback that you can come up with, any sort of. i know you guys wont understand the language, its Urdu and we're in Pakistan, but i would like some CRITIQUE as far as the music in concerned. i'll try to come up with some other video as well of another song, for now, please work with this.. !!! thanksss :))
 
For me, the drums don't need to be louder, but they do need more conviction- you need to play like you mean it, that doesn't mean louder, it just means that you need to make your notes count and have more presence. And yes, monitors and mic'd kit might have helped too!
 
I'm a drummer and also a sound guy. If you do not hit hard enough there is no way for me as a sound guy to get a nice level on the drum and it doesn't help with getting it eq'd.

Playing in a mic'd situation there is a different playing soft especially if your drums are gated. You might have to hit a bit hard than you think for what you would assume to be soft playing. So your whole dynamic range changes.

Also you need to sound check with nice strong playing cause if you play soft at sound check and the sound guy sets your mic gains high and you begin playing hard you may cause damage to his speakers. Setting gain with good strong drums allows a soundman to turn you up or down.
 
arsalanxaidi said:
...... but we are actually trying a lot of different things right now, a lot of different covers that we can do
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Cool that, but we can't discuss that, really .... because all we have to go on, is the one video you posted. Whatever you do, rules of dynamics apply. Your guitar player, for example. He's got a volume knob, on his guitar. He might have a volume pedal, on the floor. He certainly has volume controls, on his amp. So there's no reason for him to be louder than the drums. He's a rhythm instrument. If he busts into a lead, sure, that's the time to kick up the volume a notch. Either with a volume knob .... or with a distortion/boost device, of some type.​
No one expects you to learn, and know all this stuff .... after 1 or 2 gigs. I've been playing in front of people for 45 years. I started when I was 10. You learn this stuff as you go. And no monitors. Well, that's just the way it is, sometimes. So you practice, until you know the song so well, that you don't have to hear everything. As long as I could hear the bass, and we were locked in .... the rest of the band followed us. And if he (the bass) couldn't hear my kick, he'd stand on my right, and slightly behind, and watch my beater hit the kick batter head. Watch Zepp. video's (especially early), John Paul Jones did the same thing with Bonham. Watch the masters. Learn from the pro's, and then make it your own.​
Now, I don't even see or hear a bass player in your group, so you and the guitarist need to be tight. And, seems to me .... your set up about a mile behind the other two guys. That's OK, if your seasoned vets .... but I think at this stage of the game .... physically get closer. Eye contact. Non-verbal communication. Your guitarist isn't running around like a madman, and the lead singer ain't, either. So, there's no reason why you guys need to be spread out so far. Let the singer stand on one side of your kit, put the guitarist on the other side .... and you guys work on becoming a finely tuned, well oiled machine.​
 
You need to go easy on the question marks.

You also need to take heed with respect to dynamics. This is fundamental to any drummer.

Davo
 
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