Clarification/Judging Musicality

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
First off I'd like to apologize for starting such a volatile thread. I can be pretty short sighted at times.

Apparently, there was confusion between some pretty astute members here in that they thought I was a mod because I chose to lock that thread. In case anyone doesn't know, a threadstarter can lock their own thread.

I got a PM from a member whom I had a ton of respect for, basically saying that he's bugging out of DW because in his opinion, mods should be unbiased towards threads, and on principle, I was wrong to lock the thread. That's how I understood it, and I would agree with him if I was a mod.

He is not the only member who thought I was a mod. A veteran member also PM'd me and thought I may have been recently made a mod...he didn't know a threadstarter could lock their thread either, which very much surprised me. Anyway...

I'm not a mod!

I simply locked the thread because it was getting a little too personal for my tastes, and I was the only one besides the mods with the option to put the brakes on the thread, so I used it. First time I ever did that.
I just don't like seeing my forum brothers become entangled in a no win mess that had all signs of degrading further. We are all on the same team here. We can do better than that. As a result, because of what I believe to be a misunderstanding, we've lost a really smart guy, someone with major principle and the smarts to back it up.


I'm hesitant to name him, even though I don't think it will do any harm, but I've been wrong before and choose to play it safe.

I will try to find his email and write him, perhaps the fact that I'm not a mod will change his perspective on things.

That's it.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
I hope whoever it was comes back real soon. It's not worth leaving the forum over a misunderstanding. Anyhow Larry, don't beat yourself up because you started a thread that just happened to be contentious. It's happened to me too. The day we can't start a thread about something that someone just might get upset about, is a very sad day indeed. It's not like your OP was inviting a food fight!

Next time, try something like "What's the best china cymbal for jazz" or "why do acoustic drums suck" or "All drummers should retire at 40".
 
Whooaaaaa! I'm not touching this one after the last slugfest, no wa ... oops, too late ...

Okay, since I'm here now my guess is that whomever decided to jump ship either found that thread to be the last straw or they were losing interest anyway. Definitely a law of diminishing returns ... after a year or two of being a regular not much new crops up and it's as much social as anything else.

More specific subject matter seems to work out better. When we speak too generally we will always make somebody feel misrepresented without lots of disclaimers.
 
I've always been surprised at how many members don't know that you can both lock and move a thread that you start.
It is a good control tool that is available to us.

Of course it has always been one of the mods that locked my threads :)

Im reading your locked thread now Larry.
I hadn't read much of it before.
 
I think it was a bad topic choice from the get go, and I am glad you have come to see that. Maybe we've been through it enough that we can understand that any 'bi-polar' topic is really going to go nowhere.

It was a pretty strange thread, even as strange threads go. I myself made a few contributions; but was oblivious to that fact that the slam fest was going on and on and really the thread was getting nowhere. Several people did make really good contributions to the thread including, of course Polly, take a bow and or curtsy, Michael, and jazzin.' In retrospect reading through it, there were some good points made and not lost in the chaos, and even by opposing sides.

It may have been the abrupt way that you handled it that seems a little out of place. Several people who weren't even contributing to the thread made comments about it and its members that may or may not have been out of place. People can be sensitive. lol

In short form, lesson learned.
 
Lesson learned for sure.
 
Thanks Ken. I was trying to get to some area that's relevant to playing.

I do think that analysing, drummer by drummer, what they bring to the table (and all pro drummers bring something good and/or enlightening to the table) is worthwhile in terms of musical understanding. I'd still like to see that - a thread where people choose a drummer and describes the qualities they bring to the music.
 
Larry, I don't think it was a bad topic choice at all. It took a turn you couldn't have foreseen and you bear no responsibility for its outcome. I think it's perfectly appropriate to analyze drummers, even comparing and contrasting drummer A vs. B to tease out what makes them tick. That's what a place like this is for, IMO.
I think it was a bad topic choice from the get go, and I am glad you have come to see that.
Could you be any more condescending? As if you knew that that thread was going to go that way. Honestly. If you don't want to talk philosophy or aesthetics with anyone without graduate level studies, why would you enter such a discussion to begin with? As you said: very arrogant of you. And I'll add very weak to the list.
 
After they closed the bar an eerie, somewhat chastened silence hung over the drunken crowd after the brawl. Some went home to dress their wounds, others hung around looking a bit bewildered.

Suddenly a fist lashes out under the dim street lights ...
 
Hmm, this time I failed to take anything personally. The thread gave me a lot to think about and it cleared my thoughts up on the subject. So actually I think it was a good thread. I don't feel like you should regret creating it. It doesn't matter what the subject is when people start to take each others arguments personally. If we want it easier, we can always talk about technique or gear, oh wait...
 
I give my vote to the "good thread" side, too. You can't be judged for the ridiculous fights that some seemed to have started. I too find the topic quite interesting and it gives lots to think about. Maybe it's not even necessary to find a definite answer to every question.

deltadrummer said:
I think it was a bad topic choice from the get go, and I am glad you have come to see that. Maybe we've been through it enough that we can understand that any 'bi-polar' topic is really going to go nowhere.
Wow, that must be quite an arrogant thing to say...! Why did you get involved in the discussion that passionately then?
 
Wow, that must be quite an arrogant thing to say...! Why did you get involved in the discussion that passionately then?

Obviously, I am not the only person who felt this way. I also defended the thread and its participants. It was "a good thread with some good points not lost by each side." I got involved in it, and then noticed that it seemed people were more interested in keeping the hostility fest going. That's sad in my book. This is the only place where you would have a person with a Pro Drummer tag or graduate level philosophy background and people will rag on them. You would think that kind of specialism is something people would respect.

Hmm, this time I failed to take anything personally. The thread gave me a lot to think about and it cleared my thoughts up on the subject. So actually I think it was a good thread. I don't feel like you should regret creating it. It doesn't matter what the subject is when people start to take each others arguments personally. If we want it easier, we can always talk about technique or gear, oh wait...

I think you and James had a great exchange going on. Why did you guys decide it would be better to go at each other? You were both making such good points
 
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I think you and James had a great exchange going on. Why did you guys decide it would be better to go at each other? You were both making such good points
I don't think we were going at each other at all. We were just picking at each others' arguments so much because we ended up being the ones doing most of the talking. There was another guy who started in with the personal shots and lies. So far that other guy hasn't joined this thread.

And I agree, Larry, no harm no foul. Besides, you didn't even start the conversation. It's been going on as side-arguments since the "We Hate Ginger" and "Best Female Drummer" threads. If anything, everyone should thank you for getting it into it's own thread instead hijacking theirs.
 
I think you and James had a great exchange going on. Why did you guys decide it would be better to go at each other? You were both making such good points

I may sound a bit harsh sometimes, but that's just my forum personality. I have meant no harm and didn't feel that I was attacked personally at all. And as far as I see it, Motojt feels the same. On the other hand the exchange he had with Matt was much more heated.
 
What you guys are failing to see is that it's not about how you guys felt. It was how those reading it felt. It was how I felt.:)

It doesn't really matter. It's water under the bridge. I personally, believe that the threads would go better if we would step back a bit sometimes. Not stepping back is something we are all guilty of from time to time.

When you have these bifurcated dialogues, you quickly come to realize that they overlap, that each side has a valid point. We've had many of them, and they usually go the same way. I think James is right, that hostilities from other threads made their way in.

People shouldn't be expected to always get along. This isn't a hippie commune. Any way I've lived on a commune. People don't always get along there either.
 
Humans are funny things. Yesterday, at a 4th of July party I got into a rather heated argument with a guy who was basically preaching his extremist christian views to some of us. He had the whole spiel on full blast. Gays are sinners and they're going to hell. Every other religion is flat out wrong and they're all going to hell. Anyone who "believes in" evolution is an atheist and is going to hell. People who don't believe in the bible are uneducated and are going to hell. So after he realized that I knew more than he did about his own religion and the ones he was trashing he moved on to his anti-establishment, internet conspiracy theories spiel. Ranting on and on about how "the corporations" and the government are poisoning us, and "the media" and the government are controlling our minds, and marketing is endorsed by the government to shape our minds and bend us to their will. Yet somehow this beautiful mind never made the connection between government, control, and religion. By the end of the day I think even his wife thought he was full of it.
 
I personally, believe that the threads would go better if we would step back a bit sometimes. Not stepping back is something we are all guilty of from time to time.

Yes, I agree, you have a point there. But on the other hand we would have to be some sort of trained therapists to able to step so far back from a subject that we are so passionate about. So it's sometimes easier said than done.
 
Heated discussions happen, it makes these forums interesting however when it turns into personal insults, that's when things get out of hand. I like watching a heated debate going on however I would never deliberately start one as I know potentially what could happen. I don't think anyone meant to start anything there but some started taking things personally. Just let it slide off your back.

Larry I thought it was a good thread with good forum participation. At least you didn't start one asking if anyone knew a pro drummer, boy I got ripped for that one!
 
@JT1, I had to go back and take a look at your "offending" thread. I found myself rolling my eyes quite a bit. Why are people so god damn uptight? For people who are supposedly doing what they love for a living, you know, instead of working some "boring, dumb job," they sure don't seem very happy about it. And just for the record, referring to someone else's job in a derogatory way is exceedingly rude and offensive. What makes drumming or acting or paying ball any better than accounting or nursing?
 
I have read the thread in its entirety and I didn't post on it.

I think that it is time for everyone to shake hands, be friends, and move on!

Just let it go!

That's what Larry wants. That is why he locked the thread.

Come on guys, This is getting out of hand.

Just let it go.

Everyone says things in the heat of a disagreement that they wish that they hadn't.
We all are guilty of this.
Its time to cool the jets a bit and sit back.
 
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