Those of you who use less cymbals...

Those of you who use fewer cymbals...

How do you cover the various high/mid/low song sections?
In other words, when the music goes to a higher note, I usually (if a crash is required) go to a higher pitched crash, if lower than I go for the lower pitched one, unless I'm purposely trying to accent a spot. How do you do this with a ride and one or two crashes? I know this will come up too, so what if you need something trashy and only have a crash and a ride? How do you cover that?

There are many sounds that are quite different from each ohter that will work just as well for the same thing.

Even if one is a minimalist bringing no more than absolutely required, if it's a real "need", then any professional would bring that piece of gear, I hope.

I have two rides, and two crashes. One crash is an 18" Zildjian K, the other is a 14" Paiste 404 bottom hat. I crash my washy ride a lot for a lower sound, and if I need something trashy I crash my hi-hats with whichever cymbal I choose to hit. It ain't perfect, but in my world it works great. (My world consists of the greatest musicians and atmosphere you can imagine. Actually that I can imagine, since it all exists in my head!)

So hats+ crash = trash. It's a fundamental equation.

AzHeat said:

How do you cover the various high/mid/low song sections?
In other words, when the music goes to a higher note, I usually (if a crash is required) go to a higher pitched crash, if lower than I go for the lower pitched one, unless I'm purposely trying to accent a spot. How do you do this with a ride and one or two crashes?

Click to expand...

I like having a crash that I can ride quarter notes on and one that I hit for accents.

I know this will come up too, so what if you need something trashy and only have a crash and a ride? How do you cover that?

Click to expand...

I would bring a trashy sounding cymbal.

I use three cymbals. (Well, 5 counting my hi hat.)
I use a 22 inch crashable ride for low crashes.
I use a medium sounding crash for medium crashes.
I use a high sounding crash for high crashes.

And if the song is going to need a trash crash sound, I throw this on top of my medium crash. It's a Supercollider stack made by Hammerax. it sits right on top of my medium crash. A couple of times I forgot to remove it after the trash song. Ooops! nothing like a trash crash in a slow blues song. LOL





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To be absolutely pedantic, it's "fewer" crashes... but I digress.

For one of my bands, the music does not necessitate more than one or two crashes, period - it's basically classic rock, blues, and country. You just need middle-of-the-road crashes. I have an 18" A Custom and a 19" medium-thin crash that are pitched very similarly, one for the left side and one for the right. The A Custom is a bit quicker to open up and the 19" has a bit more sustain and overtone. There's no need to have crashes of different pitches for that gig.

For my other band, I add a 16" to my left for some quicker accents on certain songs, but I leave it off every now and again. This from a guy who used to have four and sometimes five crashes on a kit.

Re: Those of you who use fewer cymbals...

alparrott said:

To be absolutely pedantic, it's "fewer" crashes... but I digress.

Click to expand...

I fixed it!

Here I was thinking all these less is more threads somehow translated to ...I sprinkle some pixie dust, click my heels twice, do a back flip and tag the crash from the bottom mid spin to get a trashy sound...

There I go reading too much into the "I cover everything with hats, ride and one crash" posts. The few tricks stated above make sense as make do tricks.

I posted my 19" crash purchase at a GAS moment on the What's your latest purchase thread. I was really regretting the foolishness later, but couldn't cancel the order in time. I now have zero regrets buying the thing, because I discovered how nicely it fits into so many songs without being overbearing. Much less than my smaller ones. There's nothing short about it though, but just mellow and warm sound that doesn't say; look, I'm a crash!

Instead of sending it back, I'm definitely keeping it. It's far too cool a sound not to keep, but now I have four crashes and really don't know what to do with them all. I have and ozone and china too. Both have their place, but neither gets much mileage. I would love to strip things down, but some songs just don't sound right without a trashy sound. That's what prompted me to ask.

Seems a foolish post now...I guess I was stretching my philosophical mind! Should have left that for Uncle Larry! LOL!!!

I used to play in a band and I only had the hihats that came with my Pearl Rhythm Traveler and a Sabian "El Sabor" crash, which I used as a ride as well. I just made them work for me, and tried to get as many sounds as I could from those cymbals. In fact, now I like using crashes as rides even when I have an actual ride, because they offer a noisier alternative and their bells don't have as much bite but still have a good ring to them.

EDIT: I should note that I live in SE Asia, and everything is imported here, so cymbals are hella expensive, that's why I never bothered getting better ones or more of them.

The gig at hand governs which and how many cymbals I use. On tour I use a ride, China, 3 crashes and hats. For most local gigs, I use a crash-ride and a smaller crash, and occasionally just the crash-ride.

But I don't think of crash pitches being implemented relative to the pitch of a musical note or section. I use my crashes relative to each other. If I happen to go high to low, and the melody also goes high to low at the same time, it's just a coincidence, not something I (necessarily) planned. There are undoubtedly occasions where there's a deliberate run up or down the crashes, but it's not a rule of thumb for me. There has to be a compelling musical reason to get melodic with the crashes.

Bermuda

Yeah. It's bringing exactly what's needed.

Right crash for the gig is more important than the number. Having to do different crash hits in succession and the music would be helped by them being different would be a reson to bring more.

I'd bring the full kit if need be, but in the situations I mostly play in it's just not needed.

It's usually a small setup, but seldom the same.

I don't.

As Bermuda said, I don't think of crash pitches being implemented relative to the pitch of a musical note or section.

Even if you listen to drummers who have a lot of cymbals, such as Neil Peart or Mike Portnoy, etc, it's not like the different pitches of their various cymbals stand out that much, unless they're playing them in quick succession so you hear them relative to each other. But even then, it's not like it makes a difference in terms of the notes played by the rest of the band.

There are 12 notes, over several octaves, that can be combined into almost endless variations of chords. To try to really match a crash to the pitch of the music would require at least 12 cymbals, if not 88 cymbals.

I put up the crashes that are appropriate for the gig, or song being recorded.

There are plenty of drummers who have more than one crash but their crashes are identical or near identical.

Really some fine hats and a nice crashable ride is all you "essentially" need-the rest is for convenience, tonal variation and contrast, special effects, all good stuff though. I've really grown fond of smaller crashes and splashes for my side of listening on the practice kit, but the larger crashes and crashable rides sound fantastic to an audience (they seem too much on my side though) so I like to practice with the smaller cymbals. I like finding cymbals that are pleasing to the ear-and then finding others that blend or contrast in a pleasing manner with that one-which it has taken me years to find the ones I like-during which the choices have exponentially grown in number of makers and their selections making such decisions harder and harder-Grrrrrrrr. One day there will likely be "Design your own cymbal" that you control all the dimensions, hammering, metal alloys, etc to produce "your cymbal" or even better some inexpensive 3D printer cymbal that you can control the thickness of cymbal across all dimensions but made of some freaking plastic that sounds better than any metal alloy as we all scratch our heads. Reminds me of Larry's thread-and six degrees of separation. I guess it all makes "since" now LOL.

DrumEatDrum said:

There are 12 notes, over several octaves, that can be combined into almost endless variations of chords. To try to really match a crash to the pitch of the music would require at least 12 cymbals, if not 88 cymbals.

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88 cymbals! LOL!!! I'm only talking sequential hits and complements where needed. The beginning of White Lion's Radar Love comes to mind. At least to me playing the wrong order kinda takes away from the intro, but the right sequence really helps it stand out, even if you have to hit the high one twice, if you don't have a higher one, so you can be in the next sequence order. So if guitars go high low high and you go low high low, at least to me it sounds off in some spots. A single hit in the middle of a song doesn't sound off at all, unless you meant to hit a crash and tagged the china instead!

GetAgrippa said:

Really some fine hats and a nice crashable ride is all you "essentially" need-the rest is for convenience, tonal variation and contrast, special effects, all good stuff though......

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Ya - I agree with this.

I use hats and 2 rides now.
When I played gigs, ages ago, I used hats, 1 crash and 1 ride, and never felt limited.
You can pull a lot of different sounds from a cymbal by using various techniques and focusing on different spots of the cymbal.

If you're playing stuff that absolutely calls for a specific type,
then of course you'll have to bring it if it's impossible to improvise something that comes close.

The idea of the cymbal "note" matching the music is a flawed one.

1. Cymbals aren't tuned. They have a huge range of frequencies within their tone, so nobody ever played a cymbal that had a note that was in the key of a particular piece of music.

2. When there is a shift in a piece of music, say a vocal line that ascends in pitch, other instruments may go down in pitch in order to harmonise with the vocal line and provide more sonic interest.

3. It's not just a question of going 'up' or 'down' when the main theme moves in one direction because being in key is more important than heading in the right tonic direction.

There's a clue in the fact that cymbal tones are described as 'bright' or 'dark'. And even then, there are many tones available from any one cymbal with the application of technique.

And as if all of this wasn't enough, after all drummers' painstaking agonising over choosing just the perfect cymbal/s for a particular piece of music, with the rest of the band doing its thing, the audience just hears "psssssisssssh!" anyway.

Thanks all for your input. This has been an enlightening thread.

Low/Mid/High sections are something that melodic instruments have to worry about. We do rhythm and dynamics thankfully .

I'm a 2 crash/1 ride and hats guys, the trick is to get cymbals that cover a lot of ground. The good news is there's lots of them.

Personally I like big thin crashes and hats and a medium 20 or 22 ride. Having said that a pro line cymbal pack 14h/16c/18c/20r gives you all the tools you need, most of us upgrade to our personal preference.

I like the super collider thing that Hollywood Jim mentioned, it's the cymbal equivalent of the Big Fat Snare Drum, something small that you can take on and off and gives you a different sound but takes up no extra space.

For MANY years I played four drums and four cymbals (hats counting as one). Mostly that was hats, one ride, and two crashes. Then the idea of hats and two cymbals appealed to me so I bought my Sabian AA El Sabor 18. I have played a few gigs like that: hats and two other cymbals.

Recently at church I added a third crash, and also did so with my kit. So, with hats I can go with two, three, or four other cymbals. Peace and goodwill.

Ride and one crash for me. I used two crashes for a gig the other week and realised as I was breaking down that I didn't use the second one at all.

Re: Those of you who use fewer cymbals...

AzHeat said:

How do you cover the various high/mid/low song sections?

Click to expand...

I don't

I only have four limbs and somewhat limited cranial capacity so, like everything in my life, I strive to keep things simple.

I play very basic using the hats 85% and the ride 15% as the "timekeeper".

I played forever with a single crash but added another for ergonomics so I could also easily use my left hand to crash. Also, some music occasionally seems to call for a double crash and it sounds better if they are slightly different.

As far as tones, I just like the secondary left crash to be slightly higher than the right.

Why? I have no idea. It just sounds right.