Live video of my band "urban pop"

K

kevlionel

Junior Member
Hello fellow drummers!

Recently, I made a lil' video of my band and put it on youtube. It's a cut-together of two shows we played in October. We play "urban pop" (that's how I like to call it). A mix of pop, soul and a bit of funk.

You can check it out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lKOylWkAXs

I'm trying to keep the drumming very simple (but tasty).

Any feedback is appreciated (positive or negative)...
Do you think I'm keepin' it too simple?

Thank you for watching!

Cheers
Kevin
 
Classy work, Kevin.

Do you think I'm keepin' it too simple?
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We're probably the wrong people to ask that question. Too simple to be a drummer's drummer? I'd say so. Too simple for the music? We'd have to hear full tracks to know. All I can tell by that vid is you have good time, good feel and you are always appropriate.

Do you think you're "reading" the songs well, sensing where the high points are and where not quite enough is happening and needs a lift? You'll know the answer to that better than we will.

Your bassist occasionally uses the space you leave him to add some flavour. When a drummer leaves lots of space by not playing the obvious fills at every four / eight / transition and the bassist fills the gap, it makes the music less dynamic and more melodic.

I'd ask your bassist and singer that question.
 
kevlionel said:
I'm trying to keep the drumming very simple (but tasty).


Cheers
Kevin
Click to expand...

Is there another way? I think you could use a little bit of syncopation during that salsa number. I think some light obvious fills would help. Not too much.

Very sexy music. It would be nice if you guys had a trumpet. Keyboard works well though.
 
Pollyanna said:
Classy work, Kevin.



We're probably the wrong people to ask that question. Too simple to be a drummer's drummer? I'd say so. Too simple for the music? We'd have to hear full tracks to know. All I can tell by that vid is you have good time, good feel and you are always appropriate.

Do you think you're "reading" the songs well, sensing where the high points are and where not quite enough is happening and needs a lift? You'll know the answer to that better than we will.

Your bassist occasionally uses the space you leave him to add some flavour. When a drummer leaves lots of space by not playing the obvious fills at every four / eight / transition and the bassist fills the gap, it makes the music less dynamic and more melodic.

I'd ask your bassist and singer that question.
Click to expand...

First of all, thank you very much for your comments, Pollyanna! Really appreciate it!

You're probably right...
I think I'm "reading" the songs well. Basically, I'm "just" keeping the groove through the whole show (here and there some simple fills). But that's it. Some people like it, some think it's not enough. Actually I'm pretty happy with my work, however, sometimes I think it would be nice and a plus to add some more complex fills or grooves to the songs. Our music doesn't call for crazy complex drumming but seeing other drummers (playing the same kind of music) sometimes makes me feel like "uhmmm" if you know what I mean :) I've heard that comparing yourself with other drummes is not good, but that's what I automatically do.

The band members are pretty happy with what I do... the bass player appreciates that I don't overplay. However, they wouldn't mind if I'd pull off some more "tasty fills", where appropriate.

I'm the "safe player" i.e. if I'm not 100% sure that I will play the groove or fill perfectly I won't do it and stick to the things I feel secure with. I guess I just have to keep practicing... and add some more "complex stuff" when the time is right.

Regarding "less dynamic but more melodic"... that's interesting. Never thought of that.

Thanks again
 
Some great comments by DD & Polly. I think your playing is only 2% short of perfect. Great restraint, time, interpretation, just lacking in two tiny areas for me. 1% = I'd like to see the occasional micro explosion. Not more fills, I think you've got that about right, just something like a "cut your head off" rimshot to 1 beat pause then fire up the groove again. The other 1% is very subjective but I'd like to see some extra performance / urgency in general. Your playing is slightly too tasty in places. A touch more edge (backbeat dynamics, a very occasional double as a curved ball on the kick, etc) would better match the front stage performance. The adjustments I'm advocating are tiny but will sprinkle a bit of star dust over the presentation. Overall, quite superb!
 
Deltadrummer said:
Is there another way? I think you could use a little bit of syncopation during that salsa number. I think some light obvious fills would help. Not too much.

Very sexy music. It would be nice if you guys had a trumpet. Keyboard works well though.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your comments, Deltadrummer!

Yes, there's another way. Even though, I have to play for the music (because it's all about the singer), the guys wouldn't mind if I'd come up with some new fills or grooves, adding a bit more to the music.

During that salsa number, I play a songo groove. Dunno why but when I came up with that, everybody seemed to like it. Thanks for the input, I'll try to add some light fills in there.

Yeah, a trupet would be cool! Unfortunately there are not too many trumpet players around where I live. The keyboard player is doing his job very well. Almost all of the songs we play live were originally programmed. The songs are very keyboard "oriented".

Nice to hear you like the sexy music. Thanks
 
keep it simple said:
Some great comments by DD & Polly. I think your playing is only 2% short of perfect. Great restraint, time, interpretation, just lacking in two tiny areas for me. 1% = I'd like to see the occasional micro explosion. Not more fills, I think you've got that about right, just something like a "cut your head off" rimshot to 1 beat pause then fire up the groove again. The other 1% is very subjective but I'd like to see some extra performance / urgency in general. Your playing is slightly too tasty in places. A touch more edge (backbeat dynamics, a very occasional double as a curved ball on the kick, etc) would better match the front stage performance. The adjustments I'm advocating are tiny but will sprinkle a bit of star dust over the presentation. Overall, quite superb!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, keep it simple! It is much appreciated.

Good input. I should definately work on dynamics, that's right. An occasional double kick or rimshot may work wonders.

The thing is also, we play quite a lot of slow-tempo songs, ballads. I find it harder to play tastefully to a slow song than to an uptempo song. However, we plan to play some more uptempo songs in the future. It will make it easier for me I guess.
 
kevlionel said:
Regarding "less dynamic but more melodic"... that's interesting. Never thought of that.
Click to expand...

I see it as a Ringo/Paul kind of rhythm section relationship. I noticed it at times where your bassist stretched out in the room you left him, adding a little more melodic flavour to the music.

I have a similar situation where I'm playing very safe and sometimes our bassist hints that he'd like me to add more in certain parts. Mind you, I hear him gleefully running around in the large musical paddock I leave him :) I'll oblige when my ears allow me to. But then again one time I was fooling around at rehearsal and wildly overplayed in a song and he said "great drumming" afterwards. Nope. It was a load of sloppy, boorish, self-indulgent crap *shrugs*

But one thing drums can offer music, apart from support, is excitement. Your singer and dancers are doing a good job of that but it might be worth looking out for moments where they might want some extra help. You are obviously a mature enough drummer to know that it doesn't take a whole lot of carry-on to add that extra buzz, as per DeltaDrummer's and KIS's comments.

However, you can continue the way you are with no probs at all IMO. Stuff the other drummers you hear. Steal the odd tidbit by all means but you're doing a terrific job as it is. Your style reminds me of Chris Joyce from Simply Red's Picture Book and that was a fine album.
 
kevlionel said:
Thanks for the feedback, keep it simple! It is much appreciated.

Good input. I should definately work on dynamics, that's right. An occasional double kick or rimshot may work wonders.

The thing is also, we play quite a lot of slow-tempo songs, ballads. I find it harder to play tastefully to a slow song than to an uptempo song. However, we plan to play some more uptempo songs in the future. It will make it easier for me I guess.
Click to expand...
Adding flavour to slow numbers requires a higher level of skill than many players think. It's not easy but a fabulous test of interpretation ability. I love the challenge of sneeking little lifts into the material without changing the drive & balance. A ghosted double on kick can accentuate a passage intro perfectly, as can a non kick supported crash 1/16th before the end down beat crash finish lift the passage exit into a different vibe. These are all micro adjustments that need introducing such that your band mates hardly notice. If they become obvious, then they're too much. Please place my comments in context though, you're doing a better job than you think and certainly don't need to compare yourself to any other drummer. Quite the contrary, many drummers would do well to compare their performances to yours!
 
I felt there could have been more of a back beat. I felt that the beat didnt drive that R&B style. i.e. Listen Aaron Spears.
 
Pollyanna said:
I see it as a Ringo/Paul kind of rhythm section relationship. I noticed it at times where your bassist stretched out in the room you left him, adding a little more melodic flavour to the music.
Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I've listened to the Beatles... It's about time to put on a Beatles album and listen carefully what's going on there with Ringo & Paul.

Pollyanna said:
I have a similar situation where I'm playing very safe and sometimes our bassist hints that he'd like me to add more in certain parts. Mind you, I hear him gleefully running around in the large musical paddock I leave him :) I'll oblige when my ears allow me to. But then again one time I was fooling around at rehearsal and wildly overplayed in a song and he said "great drumming" afterwards. Nope. It was a load of sloppy, boorish, self-indulgent crap *shrugs*
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I'm feeling you on this... it's good to leave the bass player enough space. The hard thing is to find a good balance. I think I tend to "underplay". Non musicians won't notice but a lot of drummers may think that you don't have enough chops. That's why I'm curious what other drummers think of my performance. Sometimes at rehearsal, I'm fooling around a bit too, trying new fills which I'm currently learning. However, at a gig I'm playing safe. Are you sure about the sloppy, boorish crap? =) maybe it was really great drumming?

Pollyanna said:
But one thing drums can offer music, apart from support, is excitement. Your singer and dancers are doing a good job of that but it might be worth looking out for moments where they might want some extra help. You are obviously a mature enough drummer to know that it doesn't take a whole lot of carry-on to add that extra buzz, as per DeltaDrummer's and KIS's comments.
Click to expand...

Yeah... It doesn't always have to be super complex stuff. Some small adjustments really may improve the performance. Got that =)

Pollyanna said:
However, you can continue the way you are with no probs at all IMO. Stuff the other drummers you hear. Steal the odd tidbit by all means but you're doing a terrific job as it is. Your style reminds me of Chris Joyce from Simply Red's Picture Book and that was a fine album.
Click to expand...

Wow, thank you for the flowers! *smile* nice to hear that


keep it simple said:
Adding flavour to slow numbers requires a higher level of skill than many players think. It's not easy but a fabulous test of interpretation ability. I love the challenge of sneeking little lifts into the material without changing the drive & balance. A ghosted double on kick can accentuate a passage intro perfectly, as can a non kick supported crash 1/16th before the end down beat crash finish lift the passage exit into a different vibe. These are all micro adjustments that need introducing such that your band mates hardly notice. If they become obvious, then they're too much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, totally agree with you. It's a real challenge to add flavour to slow songs. Also, if you're playing a slow song with few notes, people will notice any mistake or insecurity immediately *ewwww* But I love that challenge, too...

keep it simple said:
Please place my comments in context though, you're doing a better job than you think and certainly don't need to compare yourself to any other drummer. Quite the contrary, many drummers would do well to compare their performances to yours!
Click to expand...

Now that put a huge smile on my face. Thank you very much. Feeling really good to hear that from another drummer. Wow!


MikeyOdrums said:
I felt there could have been more of a back beat. I felt that the beat didnt drive that R&B style. i.e. Listen Aaron Spears.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comment, MikeyOdrums! Appreciate it!
Aaron Spears is one of my fave drummers (along with John Blackwell). I try to absorb and understand what they're doing when they're on tour with Usher or Prince... they're both amazing and the cream of the crop regarding tasty R&B/funk/soul drumming without a doubt. By the way, I'm about to order Aarons latest DVD "beyond the chops". Really loved the preview snippets.
 
kevlionel said:
Are you sure about the sloppy, boorish crap? =) maybe it was really great drumming?
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Answers = yes and no, respectively :)

kevlionel said:
It's a real challenge to add flavour to slow songs. Also, if you're playing a slow song with few notes, people will notice any mistake or insecurity immediately *ewwww* But I love that challenge, too...
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How true, Kev.

Play a lot of notes a bit sloppily and the only thing the punters notice is that the band isn't vibing well at that time. Meanwhile, young drummers and other musically naive people in the audience will go "wow!". So you get kudos at the expense of most people's opinions of the band.

Play simply and get a bit sloppy (easy to do with those big spaces between beats to fall in to) and you can't so easily transfer responsibility for stuffups to the band - people think you're rubbish. Yet, if you play simply and well, people enjoy the songs but don't notice your role in making the band sound work.

That's the lot of an accompanist.

BTW, have you seen the Money Beat or the Super Simple Drumming threads?
 
Pollyanna said:
Answers = yes and no, respectively :)



How true, Kev.

Play a lot of notes a bit sloppily and the only thing the punters notice is that the band isn't vibing well at that time. Meanwhile, young drummers and other musically naive people in the audience will go "wow!". So you get kudos at the expense of most people's opinions of the band.

Play simply and get a bit sloppy (easy to do with those big spaces between beats to fall in to) and you can't so easily transfer responsibility for stuffups to the band - people think you're rubbish. Yet, if you play simply and well, people enjoy the songs but don't notice your role in making the band sound work.

That's the lot of an accompanist.

BTW, have you seen the Money Beat or the Super Simple Drumming threads?
Click to expand...
Agreed Polly. Why do you think so many players avoid naked slow beat work!
 
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