Since Hal Blaine has passed.....

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
......it's written in pop music history that either he, Earl Palmer, or Gary Chester, played on all those big hits being churned out of the studios in their hey-day. So I got to wondering if this still goes on today?

I do know Steely Dan listed the musicians they used on tracks, and I do know Steve Jordan played on the one Pretender's tune "Don't Get Me Wrong" (which is the most un-Pretender's song I've ever heard) back in the 90s. But would it be strange to find out that studio musicians still ghost behind bands?

What if Dave Grohl didn't play on those Nirvana albums? What if Lars was actually Jim Keltner? In fact, didn't Jim Keltner ghost some tracks on an Aerosmith album in the 80s? I'm speculating, of course, I don't know for sure. But maybe someone here knows if this is true, or maybe it is true and I'm the only one who doesn't know?

I read Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss in the studio? What if Alex Van Halen didn't play Hot for Teacher? Wouldn't that be weird?

If stuff like this still goes on, then at least I'm not alone that only my generations' favorite drummers are one guy ;)

Discuss.
 
So I got to wondering if this still goes on today?

Sure it does. To some degree. Just ask a guy like Josh Freese.

But has he played on as many recognised "hits" as Blaine? I think blind Freddy can answer that one for us. The industry has changed. Hal Blaine struggled to keep his work rate up by the mid 70's. That should tell us something.


What if Dave Grohl didn't play on those Nirvana albums?

But he did.

There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise. Butch Vig the producer, is on record......numerous times.......talking about a range of things. From how quickly Grohl picked up playing to a click on Nevermind. To how naturally he felt the rhythms and was able to lay them down.

Why would a guy like that have cause to bullshit.....especially nowadays?


What if Lars was actually Jim Keltner?

He simply wasn't. Lars played it. He played it all.

In fact, Lars was a pioneer of an entire genre. I know it's hard to accept some 35 to 40 years later. It's easy to ridicule Lars. He has slipped. There's little doubt.

But in 1983, him, Lombardo and Charlie Benante were forging an entire genre. Anyone who doubts it, simply wasn't there.


In fact, didn't Jim Keltner ghost some tracks on an Aerosmith album in the 80s?

I've never heard of Keltner ghosting Aerosmith. But if he did, surely it would have been during the 70's.....before Joey Kramer had "cut his studio teeth," so to speak?


I read Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss in the studio?

Possibly. I'm not sure. But it's a well established fact that Anton Fig did. So why not?
Depending on who you believe, Peter Criss may or may not have been ghosted any number of times from as early as Kiss, Hotter than Hell and Destroyer.

Personally I reckon he played on those first few albums. But ultimately, I really don't know.


What if Alex Van Halen didn't play Hot for Teacher? Wouldn't that be weird?

Weird? It would be outright fucking madness........if it happened.

But we know it didn't.......regardless of hypotheticals.

If two guys were ever adept enough at their respective instruments to NOT need a session stand-in, I'll say the Van Halen brothers were them.
 
It still happens today, but I don't think it is as prevalent as it was back in the day. Using modern DAWs and recording techniques a lot of studios "fix" mistakes instead of needing to go out and grab a better drummer to play it better.
 
The documentary Hired Gun might satisfy some of your curiosity. What I learned was Alice Cooper would hear these guys in the studio, pick the best ones and that’s who toured with him.

hg-1-h_2017.jpg
 
I've heard that on the song "According to You" by Orianthi, other than the guitar solos, Phil X did most of the session guitar work - I think it had something to do with the fact that there are just certain things that folks who are used to working in the studio do better than a solo or feature artist when it comes to recording.

I think though that it probably doesn't happen like it did back then because the level of musician training has developed and changed so dramatically over the years. Even since I came up through the ranks in HS back in the 1980s, the training that trumpet players get is so much different than it used to be, particularly with chops development.

Back then, especially when it came to a trumpet player's high range, most players either had it, or they didn't, and if you didn't, you just kind of had to accept it. Now we know so much more about embouchure development and how to fix, correct and streamline things, that finding players with exceptional high range is becoming the norm rather than the exception.

Likewise with drumming, instruction is better, our knowledge about what is possible with the drums is better, and so is our expectation for how we play. Combine that with better technology in the studio where they can do punch-ins, quantizing, an all other manner of digital cleanup on the tracks, and it's not necessary to hire a session player to get the job done well anymore.
 
Matt Cameron plays on A LOT of stuff that y'all don't know about. I have a friend in Nashville (a professional drummer) who toured with a top 40 pop act for several years (he's appeared on all of the late night shows, PBS, Today Show, SNL, etc.), and I heard in an interview that Matt Cameron is one of the top guys who gets calls as a "ghost" studio musician for a lot of bands and groups.
 
The documentary Hired Gun might satisfy some of your curiosity. What I learned was Alice Cooper would hear these guys in the studio, pick the best ones and that’s who toured with him.

hg-1-h_2017.jpg

I think this would be partially true - especially as Rob Zombie pointed out that you also have to be able to live with these people while on the road, which would be a deal breaker for 98% of the players out there. I know ALOT of people who I can only stand on stage, and I leave them there when I go home ;)
 
Sure it does. To some degree. Just ask a guy like Josh Freese.

But has he played on as many recognised "hits" as Blaine? I think blind Freddy can answer that one for us. The industry has changed. Hal Blaine struggled to keep his work rate up by the mid 70's. That should tell us something.




But he did.

There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise. Butch Vig the producer, is on record......numerous times.......talking about a range of things. From how quickly Grohl picked up playing to a click on Nevermind. To how naturally he felt the rhythms and was able to lay them down.

Why would a guy like that have cause to bullshit.....especially nowadays?




He simply wasn't. Lars played it. He played it all.

In fact, Lars was a pioneer of an entire genre. I know it's hard to accept some 35 to 40 years later. It's easy to ridicule Lars. He has slipped. There's little doubt.

But in 1983, him, Lombardo and Charlie Benante were forging an entire genre. Anyone who doubts it, simply wasn't there.




I've never heard of Keltner ghosting Aerosmith. But if he did, surely it would have been during the 70's.....before Joey Kramer had "cut his studio teeth," so to speak?




Possibly. I'm not sure. But it's a well established fact that Anton Fig did. So why not?
Depending on who you believe, Peter Criss may or may not have been ghosted any number of times from as early as Kiss, Hotter than Hell and Destroyer.

Personally I reckon he played on those first few albums. But ultimately, I really don't know.




Weird? It would be outright fucking madness........if it happened.

But we know it didn't.......regardless of hypotheticals.

If two guys were ever adept enough at their respective instruments to NOT need a session stand-in, I'll say the Van Halen brothers were them.

Well, this just sounds like wishful thinking, doesn’t it? And in the end, you admit you don’t know. I’m saying, what if it’s true? It’d be hard to accept your heroes aren’t really playing your loved favorites.
 
Alice Cooper would indeed pick the best for his group and according to the documentary, send them off with his blessing if another gig came up that they wanted to try.

My biggest surprise came when I heard that Eric Clapton played the solo work on The Beatles, As My Guitar Gently Weeps, knowing that George Harrison , was a great guitar player.

It was also mentioned that Steely Dan would bring in a group of musicians, play for a day, then the next day bring in a whole new group.
 
My biggest surprise came when I heard that Eric Clapton played the solo work on The Beatles, As My Guitar Gently Weeps, knowing that George Harrison , was a great guitar player.
And likewise, it wasn't Eric Clapton playing the slide guitar solo on Derek and the Dominos' "Layla" - it was Duane Allman.
 
All of which begs the question, Do we as consumers have the right to full exclosure.? We spend our money on products we assume are one thing and get something else...
 
All of which begs the question, Do we as consumers have the right to full disclosure.? We spend our money on products we assume are one thing and get something else...
I'm not sure how relevant it really is. We typically know the singers, but otherwise...? Do you know the people who put your automobile together, or who even designed it? I mean, we could probably find out with some google-fu, but it's not really necessary IMO.
 
All of which begs the question, Do we as consumers have the right to full exclosure.? We spend our money on products we assume are one thing and get something else...

The question is what are you buying? Are you buying X Band or Y Singer's Album? Or are you buying X Band or Y Singer's album featuring _____ person?

You can argue that if they used studio people they were a member of the band for that day. Most albums would disclose the people who played on the albums in the liner notes. Though now days with people just using spotify or downloading the mp3, it isn.t
 
Vinnie did Megadeth the System Has Failed, that made me chuckle. Nobody would have ever guessed! That must have been an interesting phone call!

There was also Andy White who played drums on Love Me Do, Please Please Me and P.S. I Love You for the whopping sum of £5.50........ouch!

The biggest surprise for me was when I found out Hal Blaine did all the drums for the Carpenters.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold nails it.

Though there will never be another Hal Blaine or a player of that much output.

Simply put, most commercial and pop music these days is done with machines.

And DAW makes it so easy to take a so-so drum track and fix it so it sounds perfect. Quantization, sound replacement software, editing, cutting and pasting, etc, are very prevalent and get easier and easier to use every day.

You can buy samples of well-known drummers laying down what they do and piece it together for your recording. Or just program it, add a bit of radiation to the track to make it appear human and use any number of sample libraries that sound very "real".

And even the humans who still work, like Kenny Arnoff, don't go to as many sessions as they used to. Instead, people send them tracks, they do the drums at home, and then send the files back.
 
Matt Cameron plays on A LOT of stuff that y'all don't know about. I have a friend in Nashville (a professional drummer) who toured with a top 40 pop act for several years (he's appeared on all of the late night shows, PBS, Today Show, SNL, etc.), and I heard in an interview that Matt Cameron is one of the top guys who gets calls as a "ghost" studio musician for a lot of bands and groups.

Matt Cameron of Soundgarden? Not Matt Chamberlain?
 
I think it would be hilariously ironic if it was Hal Blaine who played on drums on "Babylon Sisters" and "Home at Last"
 
I think it would be hilariously ironic if it was Hal Blaine who played on drums on "Babylon Sisters" and "Home at Last"

He did play on a Steely Dan track on Katy Lied. 'Any World That I'm Welcome To'. Only track on the album Jeff didn't play on
 
Well, this just sounds like wishful thinking, doesn’t it? And in the end, you admit you don’t know. I’m saying, what if it’s true? It’d be hard to accept your heroes aren’t really playing your loved favorites.

Where's the wishful thinking?

The only thing I admitted to "not knowing" was whether or not Allan Schwartzberg ghosted Peter Criss. But I admitted that it's possible as it's already an established fact that others have.

As for the rest, we have documented accounts of the likes of Grohl, Lars and AVH laying down their own tracks. You don't think after 30+ years it would have come out? Hal Blaine's "secret" was lucky to last 10 before industry insiders began to let the cat out of the bag.


You're free to think otherwise if you so choose. But if you're gonna do that, I suggest you stand in front of a mirror if you're gonna throw terms like "wishful thinking" around, no?

If hypotheticals are all you're after then let's debate the merits of the sun rising in the west and setting in the east.........it's equally as bloody fanciful. But it's highly ironic to accuse me of wishful thinking as you're sitting there trying to invent your own facts, I would have thought.
 
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