Zildjian cymbals for Rock genre

rocker261

Junior Member
I am a big Zyldjian supporter, and am really discouraged by their extremely minimal offerings of CRASH cymbals for the rock genre of music. They stopped their Z3 line, so those aren't available. In the A Custom line, they don't offer anything heavier than a medium weight. They have one medium weight of 19", but nothing that is medium or heavier that is more than 18". In their standard A line, they offer Rock crashes, but only up to 18", nothing larger. And they have their Heavy weight, but only up to 19".

All of their others lines are of the "vintage" or "budget" variety. And they seem to just be creating ever more in those old-school concepts, of which they are all thin or medium thin in weight. It's very frustrating to have so few options available. I love the A Custom line, it's brightness, and tonal qualities. That seems like the perfect line to expand with more heavier and larger offerings.
 
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mitkoni

Senior Member
The A Sweet Ride could work perfectly as a crash. The K light rides are also very crashible. The K Custom Ride has a really good ping that works great for heavier stuff. There is also the mega bell ride. Just to name a few options.... I mean we are talking about probably the most used cymbal brand...
 

Captain Bash

Silver Member
If you like A Customs but play heavier music I would recommend A Custom Projection crashes, they are loud but not overly clunky like many metal designated cymbals. Here is a you tube link of me playing my heavy set-up which uses 17 and 18 A custom projection crashes. Make no mistake this was a very loud band these crashes can handle it and easily match a stave kit, they would eat a ply kit for breakfast.

https://youtu.be/y-iw0vdhxPs
 

konaboy

Pioneer Member
So have you gone to a store and played any of these offerings from Zildjian to hear them or are you basing your thoughts on what is listed for weight. Any cymbal can be used for Rock, K's, K Custom, K Custom Hybrids, A's, A Customs. My guess is Zildjian isn't making heavier cymbals because they weren't selling and artists weren't using them. I personally couldn't imagine going much heavier than a medium weight cymbal. I tried the Z series when they were out and didn't care for the tone or feel at all. Take a look at what some of your favorite rock drummer cymbal setups are and see what they are using. I played rock for years and used medium thin and medim weight cymbals and they sounded great.
 

iCe

Senior Member
So have you gone to a store and played any of these offerings from Zildjian to hear them or are you basing your thoughts on what is listed for weight. Any cymbal can be used for Rock, K's, K Custom, K Custom Hybrids, A's, A Customs. My guess is Zildjian isn't making heavier cymbals because they weren't selling and artists weren't using them. I personally couldn't imagine going much heavier than a medium weight cymbal. I tried the Z series when they were out and didn't care for the tone or feel at all. Take a look at what some of your favorite rock drummer cymbal setups are and see what they are using. I played rock for years and used medium thin and medim weight cymbals and they sounded great.
I agree with the post above!

I once had a Paiste Rude 17" Crash/Ride and that was the heaviest cymbal I've ever owned. Also the loudest! But playing it wasn't really a joy, because it took some effort to get it moving and open up compared to the other cymbals at that time.

Having said that; i play in a rock band and i use perhaps 'typical' hats and ride. 14" A New Beats and 21" A Sweet Ride. Perfect for my playing style, but the crashes that came that set (16 and 18" A Medium Thin) are 'retired'. Still have them, but dislike the sound they have. My two crashes are an 18" K Custom Dark Crash and a 19" K Dark Thin Crash. Not so typical perhaps for grunge type of rock, but they cut though the guitars and the K produces a wall of sound when crash riding. A personal preference, but i don't have the need for thicker cymbals. Really like thinner cymbals, because they open up faster and have a more dynamic range.

If a had to pick a new set of hats i probably would go with 15" K Light hats for this band, but for my once-a-month Dream Theater and Rush session (with a guitar player just for fun) the New Beats are ideal!
 

force3005

Silver Member
Hi Rocker261welcome to DW. Try a look a the Avedis A cymbal line. If you are a Zildjian person, this line or this naming has been around for 80+ years. A lot to choose from.
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
I am a big Zyldjian supporter, and am really discouraged by their extremely minimal offerings of CRASH cymbals for the rock genre of music. They stopped their Z3 line, so those aren't available. In the A Custom line, they don't offer anything heavier than a medium weight. They have one medium weight of 19", but nothing that is medium or heavier that is more than 18". In their standard A line, they offer Rock crashes, but only up to 18", nothing larger. And they have their Heavy weight, but only up to 19".

All of their others lines are of the "vintage" or "budget" variety. And they seem to just be creating ever more in those old-school concepts, of which they are all thin or medium thin in weight. It's very frustrating to have so few options available. I love the A Custom line, it's brightness, and tonal qualities. That seems like the perfect line to expand with more heavier and larger offerings.
Tastes change, and right now the pendulum is swinging mightily towards darker, dryer, and trashier cymbal sounds. Heavier cymbals simply aren't selling as well and it's hard to fault Zildjian for going where the money is.

The great news for you is that because so many people's tastes are changing to thinner cymbals, you should be able to find a ton of used thick cymbals online for cheap.

Or maybe it's time to see what all the fuss is about. When I started out with pro-grade cymbals, I bought thicker pies (mediums and Rock weights) because i thought that's what i would need. Turns out they are less responsive and versatile than thinner cymbals. Also, I found I broke thicker cymbals while my thinner cymbals stayed intact. (I happen to own a 19" A medium-thin crash that I bought new in 1989 - still intact and gigged regularly).

Or perhaps it's time to diversify your cymbal portfolio. Sabian, for one, has done very well keeping up with the modern, bright cymbal sounds, and they have Metal-X and Paragon to meet your thicker cymbal needs. They will even try to make one-off cymbals to meet your needs, so if you don't see something that's exactly what you want, they can tweak it a bit for you.
 

rocker261

Junior Member
For reference, here is my current crash cymbal inventory: 18" & 19" A Custom Projection Crashes, 18" & 19" A Custom Medium Crashes, 17" A Medium Crash, 18" Z (original) Light Power Crash.

I've tried the standard A Custom Crashes, and I just don't like the lack of body to them. They are thin weight, so my tastes stop at the medium-thin weight, of which the Projection Crashes are. I have tried all the other "vintage" styles Zyldjian offers, and don't like the lack of attack and brightness. I dislike the "trashy" sounding styles that seem to be prevalent currently. And I really dislike the "dry" sounding styles. I like my crashes to be bright and cut through.

I would be a happy camper if Zyldjian made an A Custom Rock (medium-heavy) weight. I would also love if they made the A Custom Medium Crash in a 20" size. Neither are offered at the moment. I am not one to mix and match brands either, since I don't care for the difference in tonal qualities due to different manufacturing processes.
 

rocker261

Junior Member
Hi Rocker261welcome to DW. Try a look a the Avedis A cymbal line. If you are a Zildjian person, this line or this naming has been around for 80+ years. A lot to choose from.
I did see the A Avedis line and it's very limited actually. They have no dedicated Crashes, only Crash/Rides, and of only one weight: Medium-Thin.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
I'd send Zildjian a request and see what they have to offer.

Alternatively, simply select a manufacturer that is able to address your needs via their contemporary offerings (Paiste for example).
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I did see the A Avedis line and it's very limited actually. They have no dedicated Crashes, only Crash/Rides, and of only one weight: Medium-Thin.
Negative. I have crashes that are labeled "Thin Crash", and I've played crashes that simply said "Medium", as opposed to "Medium Thin".

Frankly, I'm not sure what the big deal is. Even if they're not available new, doesn't mean there isn't quite a few used cymbals in whatever you're looking for. Used Z's are abound from players who are ditching them in favor of thinner, more "cymbal-like" sounds. But I also went through the process of thinking I needed heavy cymbals when I was a kid and was subsequently told to get better cymbals by musicians I was playing with (I was the first guy in my city to try using an Earth Ride on a wedding gig - that did not go over well).
 

crispycritters

Senior Member
I did see the A Avedis line and it's very limited actually. They have no dedicated Crashes, only Crash/Rides, and of only one weight: Medium-Thin.
Check out the weight of the crash/ride, even though it is labelled as Medium Thin you'll probably find they are quoting the weight ratio for a ride cymbal of that diameter rather than a crash cymbal. I'd be surprised if it wasn't considerably heavier than a similar diameter crash cymbal.
 

MJD

Silver Member
Zildjian makes plenty of cymbals that work for the rock genre. I question why you think you must have heavier cymbals though. They tend to be more brittle and break easier while needing to be wacked harder to open up and having less overall sounds available. The Z cymbals have all been incorporated into the A Zildjian line so you can still get them but they wont say Z on them if you have your heart set on heavy cymbals. In my experience thinner is more versatile and project just fine in the majority of situations. I will say that i've never been a fan of the A Customs for whatever reason.
 

force3005

Silver Member
Hi Rocker261, Zildjian's Avedis A series has about 20+ crashes from paper thin (fast), thin, med. thin, medium, rock and heavy. About 10 or so rides. Hi-Hats 7 pairs. Take a look at interstatemusic.com or samash.com. Also take a look a Zildjian's web-site
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
I understand your a Zildjian guy but it sounds like the Cymbals you are after maybe Paiste Signature Heavy Full Crash as KamaK suggested , they come in 18,19,and 20in. Here is a link http://paiste.com/e/cymbals.php?family=3&category=2&action=category&model=12
I'd also recommend the OP try out something like a Big/Giant Beat pack, just to get a feel for the line. Drive them for a few months and flip them on ebay (or here) if he doesn't like them. ~$1000 spent, ~$1000 recovered. All you end up eating is the shipping.
 
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Living Dead Drummer

Platinum Member
A Heavy Crashes are the old Z3's they just re-branded them.

My recommendations for rock are:
19" A Custom Med.
19" or 20" A Custom Projection
19" or 20" A Med-Thin
18" A Med.
18" Rock
18" or 19" A Heavy

You can try looking for some used stuff. You can find some A's and Z Customs on Reverb.com for good prices, and they made most of these in a wider variety of sizes in the past.
 

rocker261

Junior Member
Zildjian makes plenty of cymbals that work for the rock genre. I question why you think you must have heavier cymbals though. They tend to be more brittle and break easier while needing to be wacked harder to open up and having less overall sounds available. The Z cymbals have all been incorporated into the A Zildjian line so you can still get them but they wont say Z on them if you have your heart set on heavy cymbals. In my experience thinner is more versatile and project just fine in the majority of situations. I will say that i've never been a fan of the A Customs for whatever reason.
I should have rephrased my original differently, and been more direct with my statement. What I meant to say was the Zyldjian has very limited offerings on heavier/larger crashes. Yes, you can use any cymbal in any genre if one so chooses. I don't need something is versatile, nor am I worried about breaking. I hit hard all the time, and if they break, they break. And only the Z Heavy Crash has been incorporated into the A line, and only up the 19" size. I plan to the the 19" Heavy Crash, as I don't need smaller versions.
 

bonerpizza

Silver Member
I don't understand the appeal of the Zildjian Z, Z Custom and Z3 lines, to me they were way too loud and way too stiff so if you play with a stick bigger than a 7a they will definitely crack.
If you're just wanting to be as loud as possible check out the Projection crashes, or give the Paiste Rude line a shot, or just buy up all the used z3s and Z customs on used.guitarcenter.com and reverb!

I've never once been to a show/concert and thought "damn the drums sound good but I wish the cymbals were louder", or anything involving wanting more volume from the cymbals, normally it's the exact opposite.
 
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