YouTube's influence, how realistic?

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I'm well aware of the power and reach of YouTube, and the internet in general. But how much genuine influence does YouTube have in terms of the drummers you see, and the products that are shown for sale?

First, the drummers. Are YouTube drum cover drummers respected in the same way that a recorded or live performing drummer is? What I mean is, does it bother anyone that a drummer can be well known on YouTube, but apparently not play out in real life? Or does the fact that they are getting attention online equal respect, or even fame? Is being a YouTube sensation really being a sensation?

Maybe I'm old school, or just old, but I think a drummer should be out there playing, not relegated to an online-only presence. But, maybe to a younger generation, the YouTube drummers are their heroes. Just curious if that's true.

And for demonstrating product, cymbals in particular, is YouTube considered a viable substitute for trying cymbals in person? Obviously it's better than buying a cymbal 'blind', but are drummers genuinely satisfied with this method?

Bermuda
 
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GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
It would be nice if we could all make a living playing on YouTube. I don't play out but it would be nice to do your gig and climb in your own bed, But Bermuda you know after all of the years on the road that it is a bit tougher sleeping on a bus or in a different hotel every night. As for buying online after only hearing product on clips is not the ideal way but for some, myself included, finding all brands in stores is next to impossible. As long as the store has a decent return policy I don;t have a big problem buying on line but would rather walk in to a mega cymbal display and walk out with the exact sound I wanted. good topic Sir.
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
You know, in my opinion what YouTube has done, is give everyone a voice and a chance to show their stuff... for better or worse.

Would a great drummer such as Emmanuelle Caplette have gotten where she is today without a great YouTube presence? Sure, she's got live gigs and such, but she'd still be a relative unknown if not for her ability to market her playing online.

What about Steve Moore, who literally went viral thanks to YouTube? No denying he's got some talent.

But for every one of them, you've got a lot of chaff and filler to wade through, no argument.

The internet has always been a game changer, in every profession, and no less so than in music., Also in musical instrument sales: I have my computer with a Beats Audio output through a 75-watt amplifier and a couple of studio-grade monitors in my home office. I feel pretty happy that I can listen to sound samples of cymbals, drums, or what have you in really clear, almost you-are-there quality. It gets me in the ballpark. Nothing beats going to the store and tapping with everything with a stick, but it's also nice to whittle down your options before you get there. And for the kid in the sticks who's got to convince someone to drive 300 miles to the nearest Guitar Center, that is a luxury I never had growing up.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Would a great drummer such as Emmanuelle Caplette have gotten where she is today without a great YouTube presence? Sure, she's got live gigs and such, but she'd still be a relative unknown if not for her ability to market her playing online.

What about Steve Moore, who literally went viral thanks to YouTube? No denying he's got some talent.
With respect to Steve Moore, he'd been playing with his band and doing his shtick long before anyone noticed him on YouTube. He was already a Ludwig endorser and had a DVD out. Apart from some fresh notoriety, I don't think YouTube has changed his career at all, save for an appearance on The Office, and a fair amount of ridicule/acclaim from the drumming community in particular. His band used to do around 200 gigs a year, but I don't think that's changed.

And to be honest, I don't know who Emmanuelle is apart from her being on YouTube. Sort of like Cobus Poltergeist. I couldn't tell you what he's done apart from being well-known on the 'net, and marketing his DVDs. Or Meytal Cohen... has she done any gigs in real life that come close to her 'fame' on YT? If not, why not? If YouTube attention is genuine, why doesn't it translate into real life efforts? Or is the YouTube experience for these drummers sufficient in terms of what they want in music: to simply be noticed? (or in Cobus' case, to sell his product?)

I don't mean to sound overly-cynical about the whole thing, but I just don't see how YouTube can as satisfying, or somehow replace going out and playing with live musicians, in front of live people.

Bermuda
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
I could criticize alot of them for being boring because they just choose a popular song and copy what other good drummers did, note for note, and sometimes you'll see that they have no creativity of their own when they play a solo.

I also think it looks like they're trying a bit hard when they've setup 5 HD cameras... and if you go and make your own video you'll quickly realize how much effort they put into it - it's alot of work, so you know they really want it.

But, it does take some good effort and discipline to learn certain songs and play them perfectly, and it's definitely something I can't be bothered doing. I still subscribe to most of the popular guys because I do respect their ability and at the end of the day it's important to know what people like to see.

It's funny when you see a drummer who's famous in real life and their channel only has a few subscriptions and likes... I think that must mean it's more of a demographic thing. Youtube is a teenage - early 20's thing for the most part.

As for products being advertised... well maybe this is more a criticism of advertising but I have been on the hunt for pedals... I watched the mapex falcon video, and the dw9000 pedal... and basically they just repeat the same few bullet points written on the posters for 10 minutes and you get a bunch of guys all but lying through their teeth about how it's the best pedal they've ever played yak yak. Only idiots would fall for some of these ads.

I like product demos. Massive props to memphis drum shop and forks drum closet for all their product videos, Greenbiers also, since they stopped adding reverb and other effects. I don't think I like the sound DCP get on their videos.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
The problem with youtube to me at least.is it is being accepted as the last word on a plethora of topics,especially with younger viewers who don't apply a multi-pronged test to any information they gleen on the vids they see..

It's also a place where proper social conduct and rules of common courtesy have been suspended.If you dare disargee with anyone,the swearing comes out immeadiately.This is why I rarely comment on anything on the tube.

It tends to bring out the crazies by the boat load also.

It also seem to be a tool some posters use try and bend others to their unique perseption of reality and is becoming the fringe groups media of choice in recruiting new members..

It's certainly a double edged sword.Lots of useful information,and entertainment,but the inmates have taken over the assylum.:)

Steve B
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I'm well aware of the power and reach of YouTube, and the internet in general. But how much genuine influence does YouTube have in terms of the drummers you see, and the products that are shown for sale?

First, the drummers. Are YouTube drum cover drummers respected in the same way that a recorded or live performing drummer is? What I mean is, does it bother anyone that a drummer can be well known on YouTube, but apparently not play out in real life? Or does the fact that they are getting attention online equal respect, or even fame? Is being a YouTube sensation really being a sensation?

Maybe I'm old school, or just old, but I think a drummer should be out there playing, not relegated to an online-only presence. But, maybe to a younger generation, the YouTube drummers are their heroes. Just curious if that's true.

And for demonstrating product, cymbals in particular, is YouTube considered a viable substitute for trying cymbals in person? Obviously it's better than buying a cymbal 'blind', but are drummers genuinely satisfied with this method?

Bermuda
No, YouTube doesn't influence me in any way at all. In fact, I use YouTube as a kind of "business card" for people to check out just to see me and if I can actually play. And even that doesn't guarantee anything. I just played with some of my Disney friends who've seen my videos but didn't believe I could play until we actually played together because they all say "Youtube videos can be faked", and I agree with that. I just use it as a knock on the door so to speak. You still have to prove that you can play.

But I've never used it for a product evaulation, as you really have to see the product and play it yourself before you decide to buy it and use it. I do like it so I can see what the pros are doing, like Jon Bermuda Schwarz ;)
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
With respect to Steve Moore, he'd been playing with his band and doing his shtick long before anyone noticed him on YouTube. He was already a Ludwig endorser and had a DVD out. Apart from some fresh notoriety, I don't think YouTube has changed his career at all, save for an appearance on The Office, and a fair amount of ridicule/acclaim from the drumming community in particular. His band used to do around 200 gigs a year, but I don't think that's changed.
But I'm going to assume I am like a lot of people in that I had never heard of him prior to that. Sure, he was doing well before "Drummer at the Wrong Gig", but now he's got a lot wider recognition.

And to be honest, I don't know who Emmanuelle is apart from her being on YouTube. Sort of like Cobus Poltergeist. I couldn't tell you what he's done apart from being well-known on the 'net, and marketing his DVDs. Or Meytal Cohen... has she done any gigs in real life that come close to her 'fame' on YT? If not, why not? If YouTube attention is genuine, why doesn't it translate into real life efforts? Or is the YouTube experience for these drummers sufficient in terms of what they want in music: to simply be noticed? (or in Cobus' case, to sell his product?)
I see it as another way to play, show off your talent, and get exposed, just without the pesky "moving your gear and market yourself to club owners" aspect. (That was sarcasm.) I don't think anything is going to replace playing live anytime soon, and I'm not sure being a very successful YT drummer is ever going to get you anything in life, but I can see how being talked about around the world is a kick, and certainly has its appeal and a value all its own. Maybe for some of these drummers, that is enough, and that's cool, because it leaves more gigs for the likes of you and me -- that is, if DJs don't replace us both.

I don't mean to sound overly-cynical about the whole thing, but I just don't see how YouTube can as satisfying, or somehow replace going out and playing with live musicians, in front of live people.
Me neither, and I have not once, to date, been able to sit down in front of a camera knowing I was recording something, and play anything I'm even partially happy with. But I've had hundreds of gigs where I walked away satisfied with my performance. Different strokes.

From the business point of view (which I got a little of the subtext in your post), it makes sense that if someone has a couple bajillion hits and is a really solid drummer, why shouldn't a manufacturer offer them a deal to endorse the gear they use? Your brand name is out there worldwide in a manner that doesn't embarrass the company and where it might make you a few bucks. It's at least an honest way to go about it as opposed to the whole Soultone "endorsement" predation thing.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I also think it looks like they're trying a bit hard when they've setup 5 HD cameras... and if you go and make your own video you'll quickly realize how much effort they put into it - it's alot of work, so you know they really want it.
And that's kind of my point. To what end are these videos supposed to achieve? Or, is just getting noticed on YouTube enough? And does it ever translate into money beyond the per-view rate some of the video with ads get?

But, it does take some good effort and discipline to learn certain songs and play them perfectly,
Trust me, I know what that's like! And I guarantee that I've achieved a lot more in my professional life by doing that live and on recordings, than I could ever hope for by doing drum covers online.

Bermuda
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
From the business point of view (which I got a little of the subtext in your post), it makes sense that if someone has a couple bajillion hits and is a really solid drummer, why shouldn't a manufacturer offer them a deal to endorse the gear they use?
Agreed that some of these drummers have a lot of views, and there's undoubtedly some value for a brand with that kind of exposure. But does aYouTube cover drummer carry the same influence that a real live performing drummer does? Is there a generation of young drummers so immersed in online activity, that they don't differentiate between the two? Or perhaps they're really young, have never seen a live band, and YouTube is their reality of what drummers do?

Bermuda
 

Kudzu Monroe

Senior Member
I don't get into the the whole YouTube hero thing ... but that's age speaking

And that same age factor has me having little understanding of the bands today
that can only play 35 minutes at some "battle of the bands" thing and calling it a gig/show ?
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
Agreed that some of these drummers have a lot of views, and there's undoubtedly some value for a brand with that kind of exposure. But does aYouTube cover drummer carry the same influence that a real live performing drummer does? Is there a generation of young drummers so immersed in online activity, that they don't differentiate between the two? Or perhaps they're really young, have never seen a live band, and YouTube is their reality of what drummers do?

Bermuda
Well, I know what my exposure was to live music when I was growing up in Vermont. Zero. Zip. Nada. Hard to believe, I know. Bob Dylan stopped at the fair one year, and Bryan Adams played Lake Placid one year. Both times, my parents shelled out for the very cheapest ticket, so I ended up in nosebleed territory. I wasn't able to really start seeing good live music until I grew up and moved to the West Coast. So where else are kids who live in the sticks going to base their idea of what a cool drumset or drummer is? To them, that may be the same thing.

As I get older, I would say that whether famous or not, signed or not, I can see someone on a YouTube clip and say, that fella has some talent. If I'm lucky, they'll do something that I can take away and learn myself. If I'm really lucky, it'll inspire me to do something new. This could happen with my buddy Kevin from down the street, or Gavin Harrison, honestly. I'm probably not going to base so much of a buying decision on that clip as a younger kid might.

I don't see it being much different, conversation-wise as having a video or DVD of a concert versus the real experience. I know I'd much rather see it live, but I also want the video of the experience, so that I can relive it with better sound and visuals. I'd much rather see a drummer at a live show, but the YouTube videos allow me to see and hear more clearly what they're doing.

I don't think it's bad, just different. I also don't think YouTube will ever replace going somewhere to see someone putting wood to drums.
 

RockNGrohl

Senior Member
Agreed that some of these drummers have a lot of views, and there's undoubtedly some value for a brand with that kind of exposure. But does aYouTube cover drummer carry the same influence that a real live performing drummer does? Is there a generation of young drummers so immersed in online activity, that they don't differentiate between the two? Or perhaps they're really young, have never seen a live band, and YouTube is their reality of what drummers do?

Bermuda
If a YT cover drummer, like Meytal wanted to join a band and flex her creative muscle I would champion her, but to want to be successful simply for being on YT and making money from ads and shilling t-shirts and sig sticks? I don't know. I wonder why they don't play in bands and only do YT covers and no original anything. It seems like learning a song note for note is challenging, but where is the artistic expression? They do make drumming look cool and seem fun which is great, but I'd rather kids get influence from someone out there doing it with a great band playing original beats and grooves and music. Someone doing the legwork to be successful, not just expecting it for nothing.

It seems almost lazy to me to just do covers in you own home or studio and never play out and haul your own gear and experience people watching you live in front of you. Or not even want to do live music? I want kids to be starting their own bands and playing shows and doing stuff where they could be great, they could fail, but they get something out of it, not just wanting to the drummer with the most YT hits. Or playing school bands or marching bands, etc.

Plus i'm dubious of these YT drummer's 'lessons". They seem too beginner and not well thought out. They don't teach bad stuff don't get me wrong , but nothing that could ever replace a real teacher or even just a drum buddy for a young beginning kid.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
I guess I'm pretty old school/old, too, because the YouTube drummers do absolutely nothing for me. I don't dislike them, and I don't think they are necessarily less talented, but I simply don't have an interest in them. If a person isn't creating new music, or coming to my area to play live, they just don't offer what I want.

I don't mean to be disparaging. Everyone has to find a way to make $. No one would find my day job very interesting to watch! lol

Now, as to cymbals and such, I do appreciate the chance to hear sound samples. I have a poor dealer selection here in north Idaho, and I have ordered several cymbals from Tony at CymbalsOnly.com and have been satisfied. I would prefer to play them in person, but it just isn't feasible in my case.

Hope that answers your question, Bermuda.
 

NUTHA JASON

Senior Administrator
i wonder if the very early kit drummers felt the same way about vinyl. perhaps they saw being recorded as a weird way of becoming famous - surely only live performance is where its at - kind of thing.
j
 

Souljacker

Silver Member
Plenty of brilliant lessons on youtube out there from very good teachers. All free.

Avoid expertvillage though. They're by and large a complete joke who allow some randomers with little or no ability to teach. Check the expertvillage hip hop beat tutorial for a good laugh.

A lot of pro drummers have their own youtube channel these days, not just the new kids.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
It's a changing world - there's a constant flow of meat space activities moving online. How far it goes and what, if any, natural human limits will apply in that shift will be interesting to see. As with the Nasdaq, the shift online will probably have a novelty bubble before settling back to more sustainable growth.

My gut feeling is that if humans don't go kaboom, they will eventually evolve to be cyborgs (you may scoff but it's already happening), so my bet would be that things currently thought of as superficial (like YT) will become increasingly important. Every generation seems to think they are deeper and more soulful than the next.

YT demos are helpful, though cymbals are another matter - cymbals are too personal unless you fancy having a garage full of cymbals through trial and error. I miss no longer having brick and mortar stores in convenient locations. I always felt a bit like Alice stepping into Wonderland.

But that's the trouble with percussion instruments - they're buzzy because they're big, and that makes retail difficult with rising rents and all the well documented commercial challenges of the music industry.

It looks like there will be market openings for smaller, high quality drum retailers - they don't need the range, so less staff and floor space with fewer, higher priced sales. Beginner and mid range drums should sell fine from online demos.

My 1.5c
 
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DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
I think Alparrot really nailed it.

I don't get the drum cover thing. I get why some people might make them, but I don't get why anyone watches them.

And as I've said in other threads, most people who buy drum kits don't necessarily have professional aspirations, so I get why the doing the drum cover thing might appeal to that segment. If you're not going to join a real band or whatever, why not.

The ones who give me the impression that they think if the do enough drum covers someone will hire them for a world tour or ask them to join a famous rock band, those bug me, because it's not happening. It's as if some people think they don't have to put in the work it takes slugging out in clubs and networking if they can just show they can nail this cool song from whomever.

Yes, people DO get gigs based on their youtube clips, but those are from live clips on youtube, not doing drum covers.

I really don't get how some good bands out there might only have 500-5000 views, yet some guy in his bed room playing a song that has already been covered 1000 times will have 50,000-500,000 hits. Almost as if imitation art is regarded higher than the actual art.

But as far as yotube in general, when I was a teen, I would have killed to be able to pull up so many great clips of bands and artists I like. It's just amazing how many live clips that I would have thought lost to time end up on youtube.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
A lot of pro drummers have their own youtube channel these days, not just the new kids.
But they didn't get to be pros as a result of YouTube exposure, the videos came after.

I'm talking about drummers who basically exist only on YouTube. What do those videos and the exposure accomplish for them? Have any of the well-known YouTube cover drummers made the leap into real-life gigging?
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
If a YT cover drummer, like Meytal wanted to join a band and flex her creative muscle I would champion her, but to want to be successful simply for being on YT and making money from ads and shilling t-shirts and sig sticks? I don't know. I wonder why they don't play in bands and only do YT covers and no original anything. It seems like learning a song note for note is challenging, but where is the artistic expression?
In Meytal's case, it seems to be more of a cheesecake factor than whether she's doing anything creative. i don't think doing covers is an issue, but where do these videos lead? have the drummers considered that at all, or are they happy just having a place to show themselves playing, with little thought as to any outcome?

I'm not faulting anyone for putting themselves out there, it's fun and it's free! I guess I'm really more interested in how the viewers, the drumming community as a whole, perceives these players. And do other instrumentalists view drum covers as audition tapes, and attempt to hire the drummers?

Bermuda
 
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