Your honest critique...

TK-421

Senior Member
My honest critique...

Ludwig: Ditch that horrible NeuSonic name. It's awful, ugly, sounds bad and is a mismatch of german and english "gibberish". Makes me shudder everytime I hear it. Then... stop raising the price tag because of your "history". The 40 percent overnight price-increase for the snares a few years ago was and is unacceptable, especially considering the fact that the hardware and some components that are used are still ... no comment. Stop living in the past and offer good modern drums at reasonable prices. Bonzo is dead!

Pearl: Remove the mess in your lineup. Clean it up. Pearl Export - Pearl Vision - Masters - Masterworks. Nothing else was/is needed in the portfolio. And finally get rid of that tom mounting system. It is incredibly ugly.

Gretsch: Give the Catalina a decent snare. Cutting a snarebed cannot be THAT expensive. And kill off that "that great gretsch-sound" slogan. I cannot stand it anymore, because it is utter bull...

Yamaha: Stop being boring and add more colours to pretty much all of your drumlines. Four satin colours for the Tour Custom? Really? (Hello fingerprints!) And add some retractable spikes to the bassdrumlegs. It cannot be that hard to do it. And ... ditch that new and silly über-pricey Live Custom Hybrid Oak. The old Live Custom was MUCH nicer and much more affordable.

Sonor: Make your hardware more functional. Give your drums a proper name. (SQ AQ AC/DC R2D2 C3P0 doesn't attract me) Make pretty drums already, that sonor logo everywhere is annoying. Only the Vintage Series is pretty. The rest - not so much. SQ1 needs much(!) better colour options. Again: only satin colours? Are you kidding me?

DW: Finetune the look of your lugs, those "big balls" are ugly, clumsy, over 80's. Drums are much to expensive for what they offer.

PDP: Again, lugs are ugly. If you want to go for "boutique", do so properly. Right now, it is a weird mixmatch of "Wanna-Be A&F" and "Joe average drums".

Tama: Clean up that mess you made in your lineup. Go with: Star (Bubinga, Walnut, Maple), Starclassic (Maple, Birch, Walnut), Superstar (Hyperdrive) and bring back the Silverstar, which was better than the Superstar Custom (stupid name ... those drums ain't custom). Give the Imperialstar proper bassdrumhoops. Ditch those ugly "metalworks/woodworks" snares. They scream "cheap" from miles away.

Mapex: Get a logo instead of that "fist". Get rid of that new ugly mounting system. Get some pretty lugs. Get proper names for your drums that don't sound like a cheapo sci-fi soldiermovie. Hell, get a better name than Mapex, which sounds like a sanitary tampon brand.

Did I miss something? Probably, but that's enough for the start.
Wow. Is there anything you actually like about drums? Maybe you should quit drumming. Or see a shrink.
 

brushes

Well-known member
Sure. But there is not any drummaker who makes everything right imho. There is always room for improvement. Which is basically a good thing.
 

Trigger

Senior Member
Please elaborate, with logical reasons, without saying "I dont like them" or "they are ugly".

They are ugly for starters; I don't see how that's illogical as aesthetics are a huge part of the reason people purchase instruments. Also, they're overly heavy and not as easy to adjust as ball mounts, and they way they are mounted on pearls bass drum (going through the shell) is pretty outdated.
 

Trigger

Senior Member
My honest critique...

Ludwig: Ditch that horrible NeuSonic name. It's awful, ugly, sounds bad and is a mismatch of german and english "gibberish". Makes me shudder everytime I hear it. Then... stop raising the price tag because of your "history". The 40 percent overnight price-increase for the snares a few years ago was and is unacceptable, especially considering the fact that the hardware and some components that are used are still ... no comment. Stop living in the past and offer good modern drums at reasonable prices. Bonzo is dead!

Pearl: Remove the mess in your lineup. Clean it up. Pearl Export - Pearl Vision - Masters - Masterworks. Nothing else was/is needed in the portfolio. And finally get rid of that tom mounting system. It is incredibly ugly.

Gretsch: Give the Catalina a decent snare. Cutting a snarebed cannot be THAT expensive. And kill off that "that great gretsch-sound" slogan. I cannot stand it anymore, because it is utter bull...

Yamaha: Stop being boring and add more colours to pretty much all of your drumlines. Four satin colours for the Tour Custom? Really? (Hello fingerprints!) And add some retractable spikes to the bassdrumlegs. It cannot be that hard to do it. And ... ditch that new and silly über-pricey Live Custom Hybrid Oak. The old Live Custom was MUCH nicer and much more affordable.

Sonor: Make your hardware more functional. Give your drums a proper name. (SQ AQ AC/DC R2D2 C3P0 doesn't attract me) Make pretty drums already, that sonor logo everywhere is annoying. Only the Vintage Series is pretty. The rest - not so much. SQ1 needs much(!) better colour options. Again: only satin colours? Are you kidding me?

DW: Finetune the look of your lugs, those "big balls" are ugly, clumsy, over 80's. Drums are much to expensive for what they offer.

PDP: Again, lugs are ugly. If you want to go for "boutique", do so properly. Right now, it is a weird mixmatch of "Wanna-Be A&F" and "Joe average drums".

Tama: Clean up that mess you made in your lineup. Go with: Star (Bubinga, Walnut, Maple), Starclassic (Maple, Birch, Walnut), Superstar (Hyperdrive) and bring back the Silverstar, which was better than the Superstar Custom (stupid name ... those drums ain't custom). Give the Imperialstar proper bassdrumhoops. Ditch those ugly "metalworks/woodworks" snares. They scream "cheap" from miles away.

Mapex: Get a logo instead of that "fist". Get rid of that new ugly mounting system. Get some pretty lugs. Get proper names for your drums that don't sound like a cheapo sci-fi soldiermovie. Hell, get a better name than Mapex, which sounds like a sanitary tampon brand.

Did I miss something? Probably, but that's enough for the start.

I actually agree with everything you've said haha.
 

Cmdr. Ross

Silver Member
My honest critique...

Ludwig: Ditch that horrible NeuSonic name. It's awful, ugly, sounds bad and is a mismatch of german and english "gibberish". Makes me shudder every time I hear it. Then... stop raising the price tag because of your "history". The 40 percent overnight price-increase for the snares a few years ago was and is unacceptable, especially considering the fact that the hardware and some components that are used are still ... no comment. Stop living in the past and offer good modern drums at reasonable prices. Bonzo is dead!

Pearl: Remove the mess in your lineup. Clean it up. Pearl Export - Pearl Vision - Masters - Masterworks. Nothing else was/is needed in the portfolio. And finally get rid of that tom mounting system. It is incredibly ugly.

Gretsch: Give the Catalina a decent snare. Cutting a snare bed cannot be THAT expensive. And kill off that "that great Gretsch-sound" slogan. I cannot stand it anymore, because it is utter bull...

Yamaha: Stop being boring and add more colours to pretty much all of your drumlines. Four satin colours for the Tour Custom? Really? (Hello fingerprints!) And add some retractable spikes to the bass drum legs. It cannot be that hard to do it. And ... ditch that new and silly über-pricey Live Custom Hybrid Oak. The old Live Custom was MUCH nicer and much more affordable.

Sonor: Make your hardware more functional. Give your drums a proper name. (SQ AQ AC/DC R2D2 C3P0 doesn't attract me) Make pretty drums already, that sonor logo everywhere is annoying. Only the Vintage Series is pretty. The rest - not so much. SQ1 needs much(!) better colour options. Again: only satin colours? Are you kidding me?

DW: Finetune the look of your lugs, those "big balls" are ugly, clumsy, over 80's. Drums are much to expensive for what they offer.

PDP: Again, lugs are ugly. If you want to go for "boutique", do so properly. Right now, it is a weird mix match of "Wanna-Be A&F" and "Joe average drums".

Tama: Clean up that mess you made in your lineup. Go with: Star (Bubinga, Walnut, Maple), Starclassic (Maple, Birch, Walnut), Superstar (Hyperdrive) and bring back the Silverstar, which was better than the Superstar Custom (stupid name ... those drums ain't custom). Give the Imperialstar proper bass drum hoops. Ditch those ugly "metalworks/woodworks" snares. They scream "cheap" from miles away.

Mapex: Get a logo instead of that "fist". Get rid of that new ugly mounting system. Get some pretty lugs. Get proper names for your drums that don't sound like a cheapo sci-fi soldier movie. Hell, get a better name than Mapex, which sounds like a sanitary tampon brand.

Did I miss something? Probably, but that's enough for the start.

Pearl needs to get rid of those tom mounts. Get some ball style ones for christ sake like every other manufacturer.
Mapex looks like it's on life support. They need a rebrand because their current brand image is horrible, they seem to be ruining the saturns every time they remake them and they have some astonishingly ugly mounts.


We did ask for honest critiques, but goddamn....:oops:
 

someguy01

Well-known member
To summarize: everyone makes varying degrees of crap, except Pearl, who just can't make a tom mount.
Righty-o.
It's all in the heads anyways, right?
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Also, they're overly heavy and not as easy to adjust as ball mounts, and they way they are mounted on pearls bass drum (going through the shell) is pretty outdated.
Most bass drum tom mounts go through the shell. That isnt just a Pearl thing.

A tom arm only weighs a pound or so. I dont feel that is overly heavy.

The tom arms have been around for close to 50 years. They work just fine. If they didnt, Pearl would have changed it by now.

I can take a 70s Pearl kit and use brand new pipe arms with it. Across the board. Cant do that with too many (if any) other manufacturers. There is something to be said about consistency.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
To summarize: everyone makes varying degrees of crap, except Pearl, who just can't make a tom mount.
Righty-o.
Here's a thought that would make Pearl's tom arms much more palatable. For bass drum mounted toms, instead of having two separate tom arms coming out of the bass drum, they should adapt their double tom stand approach where a single post leads to a platform where smaller tom arms attach. It would look something like this (excuse the rough Photoshop).

Pearl.jpg
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
BEST POST IN THIS THREAD ! ! !

My honest critique...

Ludwig: Ditch that horrible NeuSonic name. It's awful, ugly, sounds bad and is a mismatch of german and english "gibberish". Makes me shudder everytime I hear it. Then... stop raising the price tag because of your "history". The 40 percent overnight price-increase for the snares a few years ago was and is unacceptable, especially considering the fact that the hardware and some components that are used are still ... no comment. Stop living in the past and offer good modern drums at reasonable prices. Bonzo is dead!

Pearl: Remove the mess in your lineup. Clean it up. Pearl Export - Pearl Vision - Masters - Masterworks. Nothing else was/is needed in the portfolio. And finally get rid of that tom mounting system. It is incredibly ugly.

Gretsch: Give the Catalina a decent snare. Cutting a snarebed cannot be THAT expensive. And kill off that "that great gretsch-sound" slogan. I cannot stand it anymore, because it is utter bull...

Yamaha: Stop being boring and add more colours to pretty much all of your drumlines. Four satin colours for the Tour Custom? Really? (Hello fingerprints!) And add some retractable spikes to the bassdrumlegs. It cannot be that hard to do it. And ... ditch that new and silly über-pricey Live Custom Hybrid Oak. The old Live Custom was MUCH nicer and much more affordable.

Sonor: Make your hardware more functional. Give your drums a proper name. (SQ AQ AC/DC R2D2 C3P0 doesn't attract me) Make pretty drums already, that sonor logo everywhere is annoying. Only the Vintage Series is pretty. The rest - not so much. SQ1 needs much(!) better colour options. Again: only satin colours? Are you kidding me?

DW: Finetune the look of your lugs, those "big balls" are ugly, clumsy, over 80's. Drums are much to expensive for what they offer.

PDP: Again, lugs are ugly. If you want to go for "boutique", do so properly. Right now, it is a weird mixmatch of "Wanna-Be A&F" and "Joe average drums".

Tama: Clean up that mess you made in your lineup. Go with: Star (Bubinga, Walnut, Maple), Starclassic (Maple, Birch, Walnut), Superstar (Hyperdrive) and bring back the Silverstar, which was better than the Superstar Custom (stupid name ... those drums ain't custom). Give the Imperialstar proper bassdrumhoops. Ditch those ugly "metalworks/woodworks" snares. They scream "cheap" from miles away.

Mapex: Get a logo instead of that "fist". Get rid of that new ugly mounting system. Get some pretty lugs. Get proper names for your drums that don't sound like a cheapo sci-fi soldiermovie. Hell, get a better name than Mapex, which sounds like a sanitary tampon brand.

Did I miss something? Probably, but that's enough for the start.
 

brushes

Well-known member
Here's a thought that would make Pearl's tom arms much more palatable. For bass drum mounted toms, instead of having two separate tom arms coming out of the bass drum, they should adapt their double tom stand approach where a single post leads to a platform where smaller tom arms attach. It would look something like this (excuse the rough Photoshop).

View attachment 100375
THIS would be much better IMO, not only in terms of looks but also functionality, as the whole section could be spun around easily when adjusting the tom placement.

Oh and talking of Pearl, I wish they would bring back the older Masters badge, which looked really nice. Much more classy than the current logo.

attachment.php
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
Mapex would be a bit more appealing to more people if they introduced more normal finishes, straightened up their lineup with some normal names and redid their suspension mount. They should put an updated armory tom mount on their Saturn line because the new one gets in the way of the badge and Mapex put the badge offset and under the mounting arm... horrible look. I think Mapex is more in their "teenage phase" and trying to appeal to the younger crowd but even then, many younger drummers don't only care for flashy stuff.

Pearl could update its suspension system and put a ball joint, also streamline the lineup. Export, Masters, Reference and Masterworks should cover all bases. New finishes also, a refresh once in a while doesn't hurt.

Yamaha is probably the only big manufacturer that drills their shells to mount the tom mount, and it works wonderfully, so the dogma of other brands of "nothing should penetrate the shell" isn't really true. I think drum manufacturers should stop worrying about suspension systems and look elsewhere for marginal gains, because really nobody is asking for more sustain.

I like what Ludwig and Gretsch are doing, making modern versions of classic drums, because we should all remember our history and not only focus on modern drums. Although they could price things differently and not live on the "we made a ****ton of drums in the sixties" high. More finishes to their lower end lines like the Neusonic and Breakbeats would be nice, maybe bring some of those famous finishes down to lower levels? I think Gretsch is skimping a bit with the Catalina snare with allegedly no snare bed (????).

Could Slingerland come back and make classic drums that compete with Ludwig and Gretsch? I hope so.

Tama makes good drums but they also have to take in consideration that not everyone wants die casts on their toms. I'd like to see some sets with 2.3mm flanged hoops. They also have Mapex's problem of uninspiring and flashy drum finishes; just give us a couple classic lacquer and sparkle finishes please. I don't know who would buy your neon green oyster Starclassic W/B, do you?

DW is great since they push innovation and other brands copy some of their ideas, meaning more variety in the market which is always great. Although some of their ideas are kinda crazy... and not to mention their prices. But I get their gist. Some complain about their lugs but I don't really find them too bad. Love their pedals. I think their downsides are finishes and options in the lower end. The performer line hasn't been updated for a few years which is a shame, and their Design series has like 3 finishes in total..

Then we have Edrums and I have a LOT to say about them but I would be going out of topic.
 
I think drum manufacturers should stop worrying about suspension systems and look elsewhere for marginal gains, because really nobody is asking for more sustain.
Might be a ploy to sell more moon gel.. #MoonGelHoax :unsure:
I guess companies need to come up with something every year to keep up with the rest of the competition. So they create some desire / perceived need for different woods, constructions and what not. It kind of works as they are still in business..
How often do we see threads by beginners that can't read basic rhythms or who don't know how to tune but they are already asking about new suspension systems, how maple adds warmth and how wraps kill resonance?
I don't fault companies for not telling people that they probably don't NEED most of it and I don't want companies to go out of business, but I'd prefer it if people just bought used gear and invest their savings into lessons. Of course everybody can buy new and shiny gear and some people probably need it but that target group isn't large enough to keep companies going. (Rant over)
 

brushes

Well-known member
DW is great since they push innovation
When was the last time that DW came up with real innovations? Must have been in my youth... I really just cannot remember them being innovative since years. Also, their drums seem to be less and less competetive lately. In this video e.g. the Sonor Vintage makes DW look really bad.

I think drum manufacturers should stop worrying about suspension systems and look elsewhere for marginal gains, because really nobody is asking for more sustain.
I don't know if it is really nobody, but you are basically right. Some drums even resonante way too much these days, so that you have to add muffling. Ouch.

Tama makes good drums but they also have to take in consideration that not everyone wants die casts on their toms. I'd like to see some sets with 2.3mm flanged hoops. They also have Mapex's problem of uninspiring and flashy drum finishes; just give us a couple classic lacquer and sparkle finishes please. I don't know who would buy your neon green oyster Starclassic W/B, do you?
There are drumsets that don't have diecast hoops, e.g. the Superstar Classic and the SLP drumsets (The diecast-hoopss Tama makes are btw. lighter than those of other drummakers), but the top-drumsets, yeah, it would be nice if there would be such an option. But then, they would have to change the mounting system. Ugh!

And the finishes, yes, they have some brilliant ones but also some that are outright :poop: (neon and all those crazy fades to be precise). But at least they offer piano black and piano white on most series again. What they miss is some great classy glitter finishes like Pearl had some time ago.
 

Trigger

Senior Member
Most bass drum tom mounts go through the shell. That isnt just a Pearl thing.


Mapex don't, sonor don't, yamaha don't (i think?) DW doesn't, Some ludwig ones don't.


A tom arm only weighs a pound or so. I dont feel that is overly heavy.

The large ones are way bigger and bulkier than a ball mount.

The tom arms have been around for close to 50 years. They work just fine. If they didnt, Pearl would have changed it by now.

Yes. And that's why I don't like them, because they havent changed them and every other company has lol.

I can take a 70s Pearl kit and use brand new pipe arms with it. Across the board. Cant do that with too many (if any) other manufacturers. There is something to be said about consistency.

Yeah consistency is good if you're sticking with something that is still better than whatever is new, which is what pearl isn't doing, in my opinion.
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
When was the last time that DW came up with real innovations? Must have been in my youth... I really just cannot remember them being innovative since years. Also, their drums seem to be less and less competetive lately. In this video e.g. the Sonor Vintage makes DW look really bad.

I don't know if it is really nobody, but you are basically right. Some drums even resonante way too much these days, so that you have to add muffling. Ouch.

There are drumsets that don't have diecast hoops, e.g. the Superstar Classic and the SLP drumsets (The diecast-hoopss Tama makes are btw. lighter than those of other drummakers), but the top-drumsets, yeah, it would be nice if there would be such an option. But then, they would have to change the mounting system. Ugh!

And the finishes, yes, they have some brilliant ones but also some that are outright :poop: (neon and all those crazy fades to be precise). But at least they offer piano black and piano white on most series again. What they miss is some great classy glitter finishes like Pearl had some time ago.
The DW9000 with its infinite adjustable cam and inwards facing spring, DW "True" tuning rods with higher tpi on all drums, numerous ply directions in its shells (HVLT, HVX and such), Airlift stands, its infinite wood combinations (even if exaggerated), Mag throw off (very nice) and DW6000 series which did inspire a lot of companies to make lightweight or flatbased hardware. They are all great stuff from DW.

I'd like to see Starclassic drums with TF hoops, just to see what they'd sound like. True that they would have to replace the Star mount, but they'd be able to make something that works with TP hoops.

Solid black, natural and a couple sparkles should be standard on all kits, no matter the brand.
 

someguy01

Well-known member
Send me the $$ for it and I'll buy it right now.
I love those ridiculous finishes. Crazy colours are my jam, but not a fan of a burst finish regardless of manufacturer.
 

Fritz Frigursson

Senior Member
Send me the $$ for it and I'll buy it right now.
I love those ridiculous finishes. Crazy colours are my jam, but not a fan of a burst finish regardless of manufacturer.
we will agree to disagree, I would only buy a neon green oyster kit if I had a gig at a dark haunted house or a lights out house party. Or for a circus.
 
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