Your experiences with sound exactness with same model cymbals

ToneT

Well-known member
I understand that Paiste uses a "tuner" cymbal for each model / size. They do allow for some pitch variation, within a certain range.
I was able to find near-exact sounding sounds DeJohnette used (Paiste crash, flat ride) with A. Zildjians.
 

DrummeRene

Junior Member
The liquid used to make the poured (cast) cymbals is never the same. Besides the copper and tin, there will be trace elements in the bronze mixture as well. This is why human made cymbals are never the same.

Sheet cymbals can be more exact because the liquid is turned into a giant sheet, and blanks are stamped from it. All those blanks from that single sheet all contain the same mixture of bronze, therefore the cymbals can be made to be more exact.
Okay but if you have different sheets from different pours, than how would that be different from 2 different castings? Or I take it you mean only from one single sheet right, because if the mixture is the same across, it shouldn't matter what shape it cools at I imagine?
 
Last edited:

DrummeRene

Junior Member
I understand that Paiste uses a "tuner" cymbal for each model / size. They do allow for some pitch variation, within a certain range.
I was able to find near-exact sounding sounds DeJohnette used (Paiste crash, flat ride) with A. Zildjians.
Interesting. So even if they were different alloys they still sounded roughly the same to you? Since the Paiste was B8 and the Zildjian was B20 I take it? And by range do you mean series, model, size or what? Thanks for this, that's sort of news to me if two different alloy cymbals could get that close in sound.
 

ToneT

Well-known member
Interesting. So even if they were different alloys they still sounded roughly the same to you? Since the Paiste was B8 and the Zildjian was B20 I take it? And by range do you mean series, model, size or what? Thanks for this, that's sort of news to me if two different alloy cymbals could get that close in sound.
Yes, the A is an amazingly versatile line. He used a 16" crash that was my favorite sound. Formula 602. Crisp and bright, like many A cymbals I've cpme across in various local stores. Hammering, shaping, etc. All factors in the final sound of a cymbal. I have a delicious 18" medium thin A that sounds as dark as any K I've heard. Equally amazing, I've played and heard many smaller Ks that sound more brighter, typical of A cymbals.
Even DeJohnette once said he tried 20 different Paiste flat rides until he found one that really clicked with him. I think they were Formula 602 as well.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Okay but if you have different sheets from different pours, than how would that be different from 2 different castings? Or I take it you mean only from one single sheet right, because if the mixture is the same across, it shouldn't matter what shape it cools at I imagine?
It is my understanding that Paiste gets their blanks from a foundry. Foundries do have the ability to exact a liquid by using temperature to extract impurities from the mixture.

The melting point of elemental metals are all different. By meeting a melting point, one can liquify that specific metal while leaving the others be.

There is also the difference between formulas. B8 can be blanks stamped from a sheet. B20 can not because the properties of the 2 alloys are different. Something about B20 wont allow it to be rolled and stamped. Could be hardness, softness, etc.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Zildjian and Wuhan have the most variation in my experience. I've heard so many Zildjians that I thought sounded dead, and Wuhans... well, you get what you pay for and sometimes it's a great cymbal, sometimes it isn't. Paiste are incredibly consistent; they're the only cymbals I'm confident enough to buy without playing them first. Sabian and Meinl are somewhere in between the two extremes.
Agreed, I have Sabian and Meinl and was never disappointed compared to what I was expecting in listening to the video online, I have requested several times, both from the store inventories all across Canada and from Sabian and Meinl a specific range and always kept them. For Zildjian, I have always sent them back or never bought them due to too much difference in sound and pitch... Which is weird because all Zildjian are made by automatic hammers now...And yes, Paiste is the closest to their sound files on their website...
 

Lennytoons

Senior Member
I agree that Paiste is the most consistent product out there. I have several Formula 602 cymbals from different eras and they sound amazingly alike. The Zildjian A Customs I have sound very much like the 602s. I also love the Zildjian A line and mix them with Sabian AAs with no problems. One thing to think about when considering cymbal sound is stick placement. On a ride for example you have the area between the bell and edge to play on. Many cymbals sound very different by just moving the stick an inch or two either way.
 

Kuromaku

Well-known member
Perhaps it's due to the lack of sophistication in my ears and cymbals with a more pronounced identity, but I've found Zildjian A Custom crashes to be pretty consistent and uniform in sound. Again, maybe it's because they're so bright and cutting, that I hear them and think, "Yep, that's the same sound."

On the other hand, Zildjian Ks from one identical spec to another (18" Dark Medium Thin) have sounded wholly different from one another.
 

wraub

Well-known member
My Zildjian cymbals are from the 90s, 60s, and 50s, all ostensibly As, and they all are complementary to each other, really close sonically.
Definitely a family resemblance.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
I agree that Paiste is the most consistent product out there. I have several Formula 602 cymbals from different eras and they sound amazingly alike.

A few years back I played a severely battered 60s 602 medium ride next to a new one, and was quite surprised at how close the match was-- accounting for the old cymbal being played nearly to death, and sounding pretty dull.
 
Top