You ever notice.....

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
that drummers tend to have NEW stuff? Open up any drum magazine, and all the drummers are so well-outfitted by their endorsees - it really is like NASCAR. They have the newest, best-ist stuff. And everything matches - most times everything is from the same company too, and if that company has come out with new stuff, you never see the artists playing anything from last years' catalogs, right?

Whereas I open up a guitar magazine, and vintage is good! There's a guy who's still playing his Fender P-Bass from 1954, or a Martin acoustic guitar from the turn of the century. Charlie Watts aside, isn't it amazing that drumming magazines are like modern car magazines: always pushing the new stuff. But other instruments revel in aging.

There were a few times I read in Modern Drummer about a drummer who has old stuff, and that's what he used all the time, or even players whose "frankenstein" kits were celebrated (David Garibaldi, in his first MD interview talked about how his bass drum was one brand, and his toms were another brand, and his snare was something else, but he loved it because they sounded great as a kit), but those were very few and far between. It's like a blackout - drummers will be sold on the new and shiny at all costs.

Of course, not everyone shares my view. There are players who play vintage drums, but they still tend to be backed by modern companies, like Steve Jordan and JR Robinson. Both are vintage proponents, but both are heavily supported by Yamaha and DW. I guess they get to live in both worlds. But for the most part, I open a Modern Drummer, I'm literally being told new and modern is right; this is the stuff you NEED.

So am I right? Or no?
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
There are players who play vintage drums, but they still tend to be backed by modern companies, like Steve Jordan and JR Robinson. Both are vintage proponents, but both are heavily supported by Yamaha and DW. I guess they get to live in both worlds.

So am I right? Or no?
You're right.

Visible players get new kits/support from manufacturers so that manufacturers can sell more new kits.

On the other hand, "Vintage Yamaha" is no longer an oxymoron. For example, my daily player and stage acoustic guitar is a Yamaha FG-375S II from 1979. It's funny, even my AC\30 reissue is considered vintage now. All I had to do was wait patiently a few decades.
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
Maybe modern drums are built better than the old ones, whereas old guitars were made better than they are today?
Having said that, vintage drums are very trendy these days, unlike in the 80's when 1960's kits were considered old fashioned junk.
Maybe these artists secretly use old gear for their own small shows, but need the modern reliable gear for tours and recordings - hence the posters and ads in Modern Drummer and similar.
 

paradiddle pete

Platinum Member
Take a look at 1960 Les Paul prices then 1960 Ludwig Super 400 prices. And the Les's were getting there ass kicked by Strat's back then go figure.
 

mikyok

Platinum Member
This is why Rhythm/Modern Drummer really annoys me. Every new product is the best thing since sliced bread and you never see them say, "well this product is a piece of shit, avoid it like the plague!" Call me cynical but these publications are being paid to favourable reviewed by drum companies.

Most of the big endorsees get a new kit for every tour. If a drum company is going to throw free gear at you for their own maketing, you're not gonna say no. Imagine what guys like Gadd, Jeff, Vinny, JR were given in the 70s and 80s. A new kit will be more reliable for touring and the endorsee has to shill the product as part of the endorsement. Always love hearing the bullshit justifications for a huge set. Still yet to hear someone say play this setup because I have a tech who sets it up for me and the road crew carries it everywhere.

It's shameless marketing for sure but the fact we all notice it for whatever reason means it works. There is always someone with more money than brain cells that will buy whatever is being pushed on us!
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
I think there are 2 categories here. This is my go to forum, but there is another one and vintage is god over there.
It's no different than cars, golf, and many other things. Advertisements make people want the latest and greatest. There is a reason it is a billion dollar business and company's budget HUGE amounts to get a slight edge in the market. Taylormade isn't the number 1 company in golf because they have the best stuff, it's because they spend the most money advertising.

I think something were we are constantly spending hours and hours of our lives striving for a slight improvement is a good target because everyone wants results NOW. The idea that the new piece of gear will sound/feel better makes this seem like a necessity.

I have never owned a new kit probibly never will. The used market is where I spend my cash, but I like buying newer stuff if I can. I think drums also tend to get more road rash than guitars so lots of the vintage stuff is in rough shape. I like knowing when I buy something the edges are going to be good as well. A guitar is pretty easy to test out and play while looking at the cosmetics. I'll miss a scratch on an entire kit, or get it into different lighting and see it. I also don't have hours to tune it with different heads and see if it has an edge problem.
 

Soulfinger

Senior Member
Well, they call it "Modern Drummer" for a reason. 🙂
It´s marketing, of course - if we all bought used stuff the drum companies would go belly up.
OTOH, the "new and shiny" team seems to be mainly in the Rock/Pop/RnB etc. camp. Most jazz drummers I see play vintage stuff.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
I think part of this is drummers are more dependent on the brand they endorse to provide them with gear. I don't hear much about guitarists playing the "house guitar" when they travel. But even the best drummers are probably not playing their own drums for a good part of their travels. And those backline drums are probably not going to be vintage Rogers or round badge sets.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Nah I don't notice that stuff I never pay much attention to what drummers are playing. I look at other stuff-like what they are doing, or the expressions on their faces. But I love looking at anything drum related-new, old, don't matter. It can be an obsession at times of major GAS, but I've learned to treat like my depression and ignore those feelings/urges and never make a major spending when I have either LOL.
 

Soulfinger

Senior Member
I don¨t know how old are you (would you tell me, please?), but I remember when it was anounced that the magazine was going to come out in the 70´s (through Down Beat), I was so happy it would be very difficult for you to understand.

I can in fact relate very well. I´m 52 and when I started playing drums there was no drum magazine available in my hometown at all. (Ordering MD was prohibitively expensive.) All I had to drool over were catalogues. I wore out my copies of the Zildjian Cymbal Book and the Paiste Sound Profiles.

I was overjoyed when the first ever german drum Magazine (Drums & Percussion, still around) became available at the local music store. I bought my first issue of Modern Drummer when I came to London in 1985 - it had Vinnie on the cover. :)
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
Kinda reminds me of the new Mapex Black Panther mounts. “The best things ever!” Solves world hunger, brings peace to war torn regions. It’s always that way with magazines. When it comes to forums, Vintage drums solved wold hunger and... there may be something to shells sounding better with age, assuming the elements and years of use didn’t make them go out of round. I’ve seen sone crazy expensive vintage kits @ $4k and above, with 100% crap hardware and peeling wraps. Any change and your “investment” drops 80% in value.

Buy a 1 year old kit for 50% off, sell it for the same price 3 yers later is more where I like to be. No competition for new or vintage from me. They are all yours!

So far as what drums folks are playing on stage...what difference does it makes? I rarely if ever see anyone outside of jazz playing a kit with less than 50 pounds of duct tape on them. Cymbals on the other hand...I dig listening to...or cringe at how they fit in, are played...
 

d2dadub

Junior Member
I have had new and old kits. I wanted to experience both. To my taste newer drums have a punchier sound, the build quality is better, and the hardware is on a completely different level. There are a lot of new kits built with old shell configurations btw. After numerous study I have discovered what I like. For me it was different wood combinations in the shell with re-rings. I wouldn't have gotten to my sound without experimenting so this is why vintage drums were a useful learning tool. Luckily there is a pretty robust used market for drums and for a couple hundred bucks you can move in and out of kits to find what you like. Finally if you are playing live a lot keep in mind that is show business. Your gear should look and sound cool. It should be well taken care of and maintained. I don't think showing up with a ratty ass drum set is professional. It is embarrassing to me as a drummer when I see guys play garbage kits/cymbals professionally.
 

Mustion

Senior Member
Regarding drums vs guitars: you hardly hear about "well worn" or "broken in" drums as you do guitars/basses... when's the last time you saw a "road relic" drum kit for sale at 5x the cost of a new one?
 

Mustion

Senior Member
Also: drum kits have so many interchangeable parts that they're ripe for such marketing. The only thing you change out regularly on a guitar are the strings. Yes you can swap out the bridge, tuners, pickups, etc but those are usually a one-time thing. Meanwhile you can swap out different brands and lines of cymbal stands all day on a drum kit...
 

CommanderRoss

Silver Member
I reached a point where I used that mag to check out new stuff. However, once I found a product that worked the way I wanted it too (and would last the ages), I never looked back.

Example: I first discovered the DW5000 series of hardware through Modern Drummer. Bought a single pedal & I still have that same one today. Sure, I could trade it in for a new MCD, but the 5k is still doing all I ever want.

The 5k is probably considered "vintage" as far as that line goes, but I'll stomp that pedal into the ground before buying a new one.
 

justadrummer

Junior Member
I'm a weekend warrior, a fairly busy weekend warrior, but a weekend warrior none the less. Happily, I am at a time in my life that I can afford nice stuff. For years I owned and played vintage gear. Admittedly it was clean, higher end gear, but it was still old drums and cymbals any way that you look at it. For the past several years I've been playing modern kits instead.

I play either my Gretsch USA Custom kit or my DW Collector's Series kit at every gig. The main advantage of modern gear is improved hardware. My kits always look and sound sharp. My hardware is always DW, my cymbals are Zildjian, my snare drum can be anything. (DW, Gretsch, Ludwig, Noble & Cooley, Craviotto...)

I'm pretty spoiled.
 

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MrPockets

Gold Member
Hardware has improved greatly from 1970 to now. Currently year to year I don't think the leaps are that great.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Hardware has improved greatly from 1970 to now. Currently year to year I don't think the leaps are that great.
Oh I hear you on that. All my vintage kits were augmented with modern hardware, or at least I put the beef where I needed it.
 
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