Yet another recording question!!

soulfly28

Senior Member

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Okay, the recording interface has only two XLR inputs. You will need mic preamps for the others, which adds up to some money. If you want to do the Glen Johns or Recorderman method, you will need 4 mic inputs. If you want to mic up all the drums, you will need more.

Those mics are junk. I had a set, used them for a live gig once and took them right back to GC. CAD does have some good microphones. The M179 and it's single pattern little brother the M177 are bargains in large diaphragm condensers. The GL1200 are pretty much the same as the MXL604 and a good overhead as they tend to pick up more low end from the toms than many popular SDCs.

It depends on what you are trying to do. How many drums do you have? What kind of room do you have them in? One CAD M177 in the right place in a good room can make a great recording. That's how most of the Motown and many other great recordings were done.

I would suggest buying a kick mic that works for the sound you're after. Audix D6 for really modern sounds, AKG D112, Beyer M77, EV RE20 (the second two will add up to some money) for more neutral sounds. Shure Beta 52 some something in-between. A used Audio Technica AT-25 if you're really on a budget but you'll probably want to upgrade soon. Buy once, cry once. The kick mic in that CAD package is the most useless part of the whole thing. And it's easy to get decent conventional mics for the rest of the kit.

Then get one or two Shure SM57s. Even after you get fancy mics, you will still keep and use these on the snare and possibly other places. If that is too much, these GLS mics http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/product/microphones/37-206x3.html are 3 for $89 and almost indistinguishable sonically from Beta 57s. The isolation isn't as good so you don't want to hand hold them for vocalists or mount them on clips to the drums, but on stands they work great. I have a few for live sound spares and have found they work great on snare and electric guitar. Start with using these for overheads. They won't sound super crisp and sizzley, but that doesn't work anyway. Learn to work with these. As you get better and get more input channels (and a bigger budget) you can get some nice small diaphragm condensers or maybe you find you don't want so much top end and you prefer the sound of ribbons. Couple of Cascade Fatheads, or even Apex 205s in a good room can make a killer drum recording.
 

soulfly28

Senior Member
I'm not looking for killer sound or anything like that. I will be making tracks for a guitar player who is learning and cannot keep track of time yet. This is a 7 piece kit and I planned on eventually having a mic for each piece. Since I have no interest in YouTube videos or professional quality, that why I was looking at those mics. I am looking for a basic "here's the beat" sound. The room is just a room in the house, not a basement or anything that will really echo.
 

oops

Silver Member
I'm not looking for killer sound or anything like that. I will be making tracks for a guitar player who is learning and cannot keep track of time yet. This is a 7 piece kit and I planned on eventually having a mic for each piece. Since I have no interest in YouTube videos or professional quality, that why I was looking at those mics. I am looking for a basic "here's the beat" sound. The room is just a room in the house, not a basement or anything that will really echo.
If that's all you're looking for why not consider getting a Zoom H2 or H4?

With a little messing around with room placement etc you can get good quality sounds from them and at a $300 price tag you'd be saving a heap of money.
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
You can get a perfectly reasonable sound with a 57 overhead above the snare drum and something in the kick. And have mics that you will keep. Micing every drum in a large kit is an art. It takes expert engineers hours in a studio to get it. And that's with good mics, not the crap that's in one of those cheap packages. There's lots of information on the net on minimal micing techniques.

I would agree with opps that if all you want is something of what the beat sounds like for songwriting or whatever, then something like a Zoom would be fine.

Consider where you want to go. If you are mostly playing at home and trading songwriting ideas, then the portable recorder is the way to go. If you want to eventually make demos, then you probably should start on your mic collection 1 at a time so that you can work your way though 2 mic set up, to Glyn Johns 4 mic set ups, on into full on multi-mic set ups as you learn how and your mic locker gets filled up. If you want to go out a play live in larger things, having a couple of good mics will make life much easier since you'll probably be going through an entry level PA.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Why even go to the trouble of recording if the guitarist is trying to get it together then? Why not just get a drum machine? You can get a nice used Roland R8 for $200 on eBay these days. Put it on a beat and let it run!
 

TNA

Senior Member
I would suggest getting an interface, either USB or firewire. Does that thing let you record to separate tracks? The interface will give you inputs as well as preamps. I have this one and I like it so far, a bit more pricey than the one you picked, but well worth imo. Or you can always get one with less inputs. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-us-1800-usb-2.0-audio-midi-interface

For mics I would probably just go kick, snare, overhead for now. Close miking each tom isn't necessary unless you are really looking at a lot of production and want those very clear tom sounds. Just get an sm57 for your snare, kick is hard and you will need to spend some money to get a decent kick sound, but for now a budget kick mic will do. And overhead you'll need a large dighram condenser, I have an Audio Technica AT2020 which isn't bad. With just these three mics you can get a pretty good sounding recording.

A few general words of advice though. First is to buy used, always look used first, musical gear lasts forever and there is absolutely no reason to buy it new if you can find it used. Second is to plan for the future. Even if you don't think you'll need that many inputs on your interface or you'll just get the cheap mics for now. It will cost you much more if you keep doing small upgrades. Think about your ultimate goal and work towards getting that gear before you run out and buy stuff that you'll only use for a few sessions.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
I'm really dumb with this stuff - how would you link two OH mics to record to your PC using Audacity? Do you just need a small mix board?
 

TNA

Senior Member
I'm really dumb with this stuff - how would you link two OH mics to record to your PC using Audacity? Do you just need a small mix board?
I'll try to put this as simply as possible. Your mics need their signal to be amplified in order to be recorded. This means a preamp, either one in a mixing board or an audio interface. Usually if you are just getting a small mixer, it is not going to allow you to record onto two separate tracks for editing later (although now the technology may be up to date). If you get an interface you get generally better preamps and the ability to record onto separate tracks.

So you get your two overhead mics and arrange them in some sort of stereo pattern, say XY for example. Then just plug them into channels 1 and 2 on your mixer or interface, arm those tracks for recording in whatever software you are using and that's it. Overheads are not really "linked" together. They are recorded onto two separate tracks, but will often be panned hard left and right and are mixed somewhat together usually.
 

Galadrm

Senior Member
I agree with oops or bo, just get a drum machine or a H2, or why not just get the guitarist to play along to a click track or shaker sound? A H2 would be a good investment though and you could place it in the middle of the room at your band practices (Is the guitarist in your band?) and use it to record jams so you have your ideas saved and can go back to refer to them if you like a pattern/lick you did.
 

soulfly28

Senior Member
Ok, time to respond. You guys lit this conversation up while I was asleep. First off, I will be recording for a 13 year old kid. He is just starting out. His dad, a good friend, will be helping him with the timing also. Think of is as a "drumless track", just backwards. I am not in a band, I no longer have the time for that. The family is going through hard times, so them getting a drum machine is out of the question. I am really doing this out of the kindness of my heart to help this young starting musician and his family out. I have been looking at used also. I just wasn't sure how to get all of this 7 piece kit included in the recording with 2 mics, that's why I was looking at a cheap kit for it. I have the mixing board already, from when my dad and I used to record. When he passed away, all mics got sold but the mixing board got over looked until about a year ago. When it was found, it was given to me. I wasn't even aware that these H2 units existed!! That is how long it has been since I have done any recoding. All of ours was on a 4 track tape recording thing he had, that is still at my house.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Ok, time to respond. You guys lit this conversation up while I was asleep. First off, I will be recording for a 13 year old kid. He is just starting out. His dad, a good friend, will be helping him with the timing also. Think of is as a "drumless track", just backwards. I am not in a band, I no longer have the time for that. The family is going through hard times, so them getting a drum machine is out of the question. I am really doing this out of the kindness of my heart to help this young starting musician and his family out. I have been looking at used also. I just wasn't sure how to get all of this 7 piece kit included in the recording with 2 mics, that's why I was looking at a cheap kit for it. I have the mixing board already, from when my dad and I used to record. When he passed away, all mics got sold but the mixing board got over looked until about a year ago. When it was found, it was given to me. I wasn't even aware that these H2 units existed!! That is how long it has been since I have done any recoding. All of ours was on a 4 track tape recording thing he had, that is still at my house.
Well bless you, man. It's nice when people want to help others. But to stay along in the cheaper realm, since you already have the computer, you could literally get by with a good USB mic and not use the mixer. Basically, any interface you get to get the audio into the computer will only be in stereo or mono anyway, so if you got one good USB mic and recorded with that just to get instruments into the computer (or the entire group live) would work too, wouldn't it?

I bought a used Samson CO1 USB studio condenser on eBay for $50 and it was a cool investment, I didn't think I'd use it as much as I do. I could throw that up over my drum kit and it works out really well.
 

soulfly28

Senior Member
That's an idea I never thought of!! Yes, these people are very close to my heart. I have known them for an extremely long time. First time I met them, I was moving next door to them. The husband was digging a trench for a sewage line. My introduction to him was this: "Give me 10 minutes to get my shovel and I'll be over to help". From that moment on, that family became more of an extended family than friends. I would like to eventually record some decent stuff, but I need to save my pennies for that. This is just a "here ya go, get started" type of deal!!
 

soulfly28

Senior Member
I have decided on a mic kit. Going with an audix 7 piece. Might as well do it right the first time. What about overhead mics? This is a 7 piece drum kit, so I am assuming I will want overhead mics for the symbols. Correct?
 

Xero Talent

Silver Member
I use the CAD Premium 7-mic kit + Tascam 1800 + Reaper.

Works flawlessly, great "home studio" setup on the cheap.
 

soulfly28

Senior Member
Ok, trying to see if I can get unity gain out of this old Yamaha MC1202. As I said before, this was my late fathers, and he always did this part. Here is the manual.

http://www.manualowl.com/m/Yamaha/MC1202/Manual/153180

Here is my question, on page 3 I see a clip indicator. On page 7, I have an old school needle. What is the difference in the 2. I can show clipping on the needles, but never actually seen the clipping light on the channels come on!!! Hopefully someone with some experience will have some input. Thanks!!
 

NerfLad

Silver Member
+1, I can't recommend the Tascam US-1800 or Reaper highly enough.

Stay away from CAD mics though :)
 
A

audiotech

Guest
Ok, trying to see if I can get unity gain out of this old Yamaha MC1202. As I said before, this was my late fathers, and he always did this part. Here is the manual.

http://www.manualowl.com/m/Yamaha/MC1202/Manual/153180

Here is my question, on page 3 I see a clip indicator. On page 7, I have an old school needle. What is the difference in the 2. I can show clipping on the needles, but never actually seen the clipping light on the channels come on!!! Hopefully someone with some experience will have some input. Thanks!!
Both are very different. I don't understand how you can see clipping on the meters, unless there is also a clipping LED within the meter housing itself. Anyway, the needles or VU meters in the board are calibrated for a signal of a specific "level" when they reach "0" VU. This can be just about any level from -20 db to +8 db on some professional equipment, although +4 is basically the standard output for better balanced output mixers. In the complexity of the signal, very fast transients sometimes occurs which are often not pick-up by the VU meters because of their slowish response time. Here's where the clip indicators come into action. The "clip" indicators are calibrated to light when the level on the channel is getting very close to distortion or clipping because of the high input intensity of the sound level entering the mixer. There is usually only about 2 or 3 decibels between where the LEDs light and clipping actually occurs. There are usually "trim" pots located at the top of each channel that will lower the input sensitivity to each individual channel. After each channel is properly set so that the clipping indicators are generally not on but generally close to being on, this is the correct input level of the channel. Also these trim pots are set with the mixers channel sliders or "pots" about three quarters of the way up as indicated on the front panel of most mixers. From here all the signals combine or mix and are delivered to the mixers output section. If the signal at this point is too "hot" LED clipping indicators within the output section will also start to light,informing the operator that the signal is very close to distortion, even though the levels are correctly set on each individual channel. A bit more technically speaking, the clipping indicators that are used on the output of the console are usual calibrated at the factory to come on with signal peaks somewhere between 10 and 18 decibels, depending on the mixer, above what you see when the meters actually read "0" VU.

If you happen to have these clipping indicators on the output section of the mixer, it's telling you that the combination of individual channels are just too high for the output section to pass the signal without distorting it. It's time to back down on the faders.

What I've described above is called "gain staging". It's the proper way to set audio gain though out the mixer from the input connector to the output connections for the best signal to noise ratio and also clean sound.

I hope that this answers your question and doesn't create more confusion for you. If for some reason I'm way off base for the type of equipment you are using, sorry. Any questions, just ask.

Dennis
 
Top