Yamaha Multipad revised

Hansolo

Senior Member
If you're considering a compact e-kit or want to expand your acoustic and electronic kits, you may be interested in some improvements I've made to the versatile DTX Multi-12 multipad. I was unimpressed with it initially but after reading the manual and making changes to the pad layouts, voices and trigger levels I was surprised by it's potential. I've been fine tuning mine for a while, to have more convenient selection of kits and make the 'standard' drum kits sound more playable using only the voices provided (no extra wave files). One of the most useful features is that each pad has 4 layers to allow mixing of samples with individual control of their tuning, volume and other parameters to create a better range of sounds - especially for the snares and cymbals. The kits are configured for the hihat pads to work with a HH65 or RHH135 controller and the kicks (or patterns) can be triggered from a foot pedal (eg Roland FD-8) or via pad input 14. I'm also using a Roland PDX-8 dual trigger pad for a snare drum.

Here are some of the mods I've done and suggestions for Yamaha to make the next version of the Multi-12 a more useful percussion unit:

Current improvements:
- Rearranged kit pads/voices for a more conventional drum kit layout to make them easier to play.
- More useful mixes of snare, tom, kick and cymbal sounds as some of the original standard drum kits sound 'unusual or unusable'.
- Regrouped User kits for more convenient switching combinations of acoustic and electronic sounding kits.
- Wider range of pad sensitivity for stick and hand playing with progressive input gain settings from 15 to 60. Default Startup Trg (U07) is set for good pad response with fairly mild stick playing (Input Gain=45).
- Added Yamaha optional kits (5 electronic and 4 acoustic) - their wave files are available from Dropbox.
- Extra internal GM/melodic kits plus midi control of external synthesizer sounds (work in progress).

Future improvements:
- Kit editor to simplify changing pad/voice settings with less menu navigation.
- Increase wave memory size from 64MB to at least 2GB (similar to Roland's SPD-SX)
- Front panel control of multi-effects (similar to Roland's SPD-SX)
- Add a kit chain function for easier kit order selection (similar to Roland's SPD-SX)

You can download my data and info files of the revised Multi-12 kits (as a freebie) from Dropbox with this link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bx1wtmiud6ww96c/2uNYI2kb1d

Let us know of any other ideas to improve the Multi-12 and (if you have access to one) what you think of the revised kits - have fun with them.
 

thebarak

Senior Member
Re: Yamaha multipad revised

It would be nice to see a video demo of this customised Multi-12. Yamaha really should make a nice one-piece for drummers only, with all the nice sampled kits from the 700 and 900 modules, and they could give us the TCS surface too. I think it would sell well.
 

Defender

Silver Member
Re: Yamaha multipad revised

Oh my.. TCS on a multi-12? I'd seriously consider buying one if they left the price alone where it is.
 
Re: Yamaha multipad revised

If you're considering a compact e-kit or want to expand your acoustic and electronic kits, you may be interested in some improvements I've made to the versatile DTX Multi-12 multipad. I was unimpressed with it initially but after reading the manual and making changes to the pad layouts, voices and trigger levels I was surprised by it's potential. I've been fine tuning mine for a while, to have more convenient selection of kits and make the 'standard' drum kits sound more playable using only the voices provided (no extra wave files). One of the most useful features is that each pad has 4 layers to allow mixing of samples with individual control of their tuning, volume and other parameters to create a better range of sounds - especially for the snares and cymbals. The kits are configured for the hihat pads to work with a HH65 or RHH135 controller and the kicks (or patterns) can be triggered from a foot pedal (eg Roland FD-8) or via pad input 14. I'm also using a Roland PDX-8 dual trigger pad for a snare drum.

Here are some of the mods I've done and suggestions for Yamaha to make the next version of the Multi-12 a more useful percussion unit:

Current improvements:
- Rearranged kit pads/voices for a more conventional drum kit layout to make them easier to play.
- More useful mixes of snare, tom, kick and cymbal sounds as some of the original standard drum kits sound 'unusual or unusable'.
- Regrouped User kits for more convenient switching combinations of acoustic and electronic sounding kits.
- Wider range of pad sensitivity for stick and hand playing with progressive input gain settings from 15 to 60. Default Startup Trg (U07) is set for good pad response with fairly mild stick playing (Input Gain=45).
- Added Yamaha optional kits (5 electronic and 4 acoustic) - their wave files are available from Dropbox.
- Extra internal GM/melodic kits plus midi control of external synthesizer sounds (work in progress).

Future improvements:
- Kit editor to simplify changing pad/voice settings with less menu navigation.
- Increase wave memory size from 64MB to at least 2GB (similar to Roland's SPD-SX)
- Front panel control of multi-effects (similar to Roland's SPD-SX)
- Add a kit chain function for easier kit order selection (similar to Roland's SPD-SX)

You can download my data and info files of the revised Multi-12 kits (as a freebie) from Dropbox with this link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bx1wtmiud6ww96c/2uNYI2kb1d

Let us know of any other ideas to improve the Multi-12 and (if you have access to one) what you think of the revised kits - have fun with them.
Hi Hansolo,

Do you have notes on the mappings you've created and thanks creating these files. I'll attach a Trigger Setting guide and file that was created to increase center section's pad sensitivity.

Let me know if this helps,

DTX Product Specialist
 

Attachments

Hansolo

Senior Member
It would be nice to see a video demo of this customised Multi-12. Yamaha really should make a nice one-piece for drummers only, with all the nice sampled kits from the 700 and 900 modules, and they could give us the TCS surface too. I think it would sell well.
Here's a pic of my dual Multi-12 setup and I'll include an mp3 file of some kits in a later post about the versatile Korg Pandora-Mini effects unit mounted on the stand.
Yamaha probably don't want the Multi-12's 'standard' drum kits competing with their DTX900/700/500 series, but I think acoustic or electronic drummers would consider adding an M-12 to their rig if the kits sound better.
FYI - ex-Roland developer Steven Fisher has joined the Yamaha team and it'll be interesting to see how the DTX products develop
 

Attachments

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Hansolo

Senior Member
Re: Yamaha multipad revised

Hi Hansolo,

Do you have notes on the mappings you've created and thanks creating these files. I'll attach a Trigger Setting guide and file that was created to increase center section's pad sensitivity.

Let me know if this helps,

DTX Product Specialist
Thanks for your info DTX P/S. I tried your trigger settings file and was surprised by the good pad response with the Hard2 velocity curve - I just increased all the pad input gains to 30 as there were no crosstalk issues even at higher gain levels.
I haven't documented my pad voice configs in any detail as they are a 'work in progress' but here is the revised pad layout for easier playing of the more standard kits with sticks or hands: Pad1- Snare Cl/Rim, Pad2- Cymbal, Pad3- Cymbal(Cmb), Pads4-6 Toms, Pad7- Snare, Pad8- Op/Hihat, Pad9- Kick1, Pad10- Snare Op/rim, Pad11- Cymbal or Cl/Hihat, Pad12- Cymbal(Cmb) or Kick2 - I assumed a hihat pedal would be used by most for the Cl/Hihat sound but it can be simply added to pad11 instead.
Maybe John Melas (http://www.jmelas.gr/dtx/products.php) could produce a Multi-12 editor similar to the one he did for the DTX700 so the settings could be reviewed and modified more easily.
 
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Hansolo

Senior Member
Nice 24 pad and 2 kick setup. Almost like a Yamaha TrapKAT.
Thanks Barak,
There are also extra pad inputs (1-3zone & 2-dual) on each M12 module if required, so that could just trump the TrapKAT.
One of the Multi-12s could be replaced with a SPD-SX for a more versatile hybrid.
I've also had a Korg X50 keyboard mounted on top and it's sturdy enough.
 
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Hansolo

Senior Member
I've added a Korg Pandora Mini effects processor to my Multi 12's output which improves the dynamics of the drum sounds. The revised effects settings (without distortion) are saved in the 200 User programs (0 to 199) with original guitar effects stored in Preset programs (200 to 399). It's easy to switch between custom effects on 4 panel buttons or a value dial and there is an editor to help modify the 200 user programs.
I've recorded an mp3 demo of 4 effects that I prefer (assigned to the panel buttons) and I switched them in this sequence: Fx bypass, Rock*(121), Soulsister*(25), Blues*(184), Exception*(60), Rock*(121) and Fx bypass.
The modified User programs and mp3 files (plus owners manual) are available from: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lz0sdoqez46r8io/WOQqueK7RI
Korg's (free) editor is required to transfer the downloaded Pandora User Programs-1.pxm file to the module.
The Pandora Mini module is a simple way to expand your available kit sounds and it's well worth adding to any edrum setup.
 
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cristaples

Junior Member
If yamaha sort out the multi 12 and give it these updates, better front panel and menus, the volume controls like spd-sx, click ease of use that could be done with a few tweaks, (most important update to the spd-sx) extra 2gb memory, sub out and routings like spd-sx, it'll hook me in, I'll then sell my Roland spd-sx and my octapad. I was disappointed in the new sx as it has pads that are less playable, no layering, and no phrase maker. They added new stuff but took other things away.
Add a few more trigger inputs so I can trigger 5 toms, kick snare and a couple if extra bar triggers and it'll kill all the Roland gear. It's time for an updated product I hope.
I'd really go for that! Even if it was more expensive.
 

cristaples

Junior Member
Also adding support for Roland and ddrum triggers including rt-10 triggers and redshot would be good. We all use triggers other than yamaha, why not put in support for other manufacturers triggers and pads and get those presets into the menu.
With today's availability of extra memory it's a no brainer that it won't take much.
I wish someone would make a multi pad that does everything, the multi 12 update could really destroy Roland's spd-sx,octapad and the new handsonic. The pad mute and finger playability is already great.
Maybe a pitch bend with a pad push would be good too, unless it's got that already.
 

cristaples

Junior Member
I get my monitor mix back though my aux input then route it through to my in ears so my click from my spd is private, my monitors are well controlled etc. The sx allows for this with those seperate volume knobs. If they can make the aux input a 1/4" jack it'd be better than the current mini, but also give us a second aux in and we can add in other modules and get even more choices. Hope I'm not out if order but I'd love to see this stuff happen.
 
Hi Everybody,

The DTXM12 has a new firmware update that is available for free!

Here is the list of improvements:

1 - Added ability to route the CLICK ONLY ("ph2"=solo click) to the phones. In response to requests from professional drummers who do not want the M12 sounds mixed in with the click headphone feed.
2 - Added new PAD TYPES for our newest trigger pads including KU100 trigger pedal
3 - Expanded the GAIN setting range from between 0 and 64 to between 0 and 127.

http://download.yamaha.com/search/product/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16091&category_id2=16522&category_id3=16554&product_id=1048808

Hope this helps,
DTX Product Specialist
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Are there any plans for an editing program for the M12?
Future model wish list enhancements are all well and good, but an editor would bring greater ease of use for those who already own the current model.
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
My .02 for the DTX guy.

I use an SPD-SX and it does almost everything i want it to do. I haven't researched the Multi pad.

I use it as a sampler for backing tracks, not anything drum related.

1) If someone made a unit with more (or all) remote trigger inputs (SPD has only 4) , it would give more triggering options.

2) Put some dang memory in there!! It cost NOTHING and takes up no space. Although the Roland has 2 GB, it's barely enough to do 4 sets of music. There are 100 kits but after using maybe half, the 2GB is full.

That's all I got :)
 

cristaples

Junior Member
I sent this to a Yamaha DTX guy at Yamaha USA, I hadn't actually read that some of this stuff is actually onboard already at the time, I have a DTX multi on the way secondhand, looking forward to getting into it and selling my octapad which I have become frustrated with due to the lack of layering and options in comparison to what I felt could be achieved, it seems the DTX will serve my purpose

Heres my ideas!


A Mac and PC editor like the roland ones, also maybe an app for iPad/iphone that allows complete control over all the internal settings, parameters etc with a blue tooth link built into the DTX unit, then you can keep the screen small but we can use a larger iPad screen to make all the adjustments….everyone is doing it, my current band use a mackie mixer that we can control our monitor mixes and other things from our iPhones, but we need to use a wireless network, I don’t want to have to worry about a wireless network on a stage with a percussion pad, maybe bluetooth would be a better solution.

The thing that Roland missed was that when they upgraded the SPD-s to the SX they took out the ability to layer sounds and have a dynamic change point, they have it on the octapad, but not the SX and I’m really annoyed as that enabled much more expressive playing, also the pads feel worse, and theres no phrase maker, they did get right the need for the separate click volume and routing to headphones and the ease of use of that feature, also those extra volume knobs on the front are easy to use and work exactly right, if the new DTX had that it’d be great.

Also, we only get so many trigger inputs on a lot of these drum pads, the SX has 2 stereo, the octapad has 4 stereo, but they don’t work as separate mono trigger inputs as the rim input is crap, if there were 7 mono inputs for tom and kick triggers, a dual snare input (stereo) and two or three more for bar triggers like the Roland BT-1 then it would be a dream machine, at the moment I have to carry a TD-12 brain for triggering, an SPD-sx for samples, and if I want good dynamically accurate percussion etc I have to take an octapad, the multi 12 is on the verge of eliminating all of this by the addition of a few extras…. I know this will push up the price point, but if it was an APPLE product then it’d be a no brainer and all the rest of the products would be poor substitutes…..

I have thought of mounting Bar Triggers on parts of the kit that can be reached by other members of a band so they can play agogo or tambourine things, maybe trigger loops that I can’t get to if I’m busy, those extra trigger inputs would make that all possible while triggering my kit and playing the DTX multi as well.

The pad mute and finger style playing is brilliant and knock the Handsonic by Roland out of the park when you can combine Sampler (SPD-SX), percussion pad (octapad), trigger brain(td-12/20 etc), and handsonic style playing in one unit you will see them in every studio and theatre pit in the world, drummers would go for it I’m sure.

Rolands Sub out and Routings of the sub out and audio input are really important and useful, this could be done on any new DTX

Pitch bend as part of a pressure pad like the pad mute function would be really cool too! The handsonic has that and it’s a good function though not that important.


I get my monitor mix back though my aux input then route it through to my in ears so my click from my spd is private, my monitors are well controlled etc. The sx allows for this with those seperate volume knobs. If you can make the aux input a 1/4" jack it'd be better than the current mini, but also give us a second aux in and we can add in other modules and get even more choices.

One thing that is really annoying is that the trigger parameters don’t allow us to see settings for other manufacturers products, if you put in the settings for all the available yamaha pads and triggers, why not put in settings for Roland and DDrum products etc, it would only take an afternoon for someone to get hold of the other brains and percussion pads and look into it and put them into the choices of trigger input….makes sense. I have to use certain products that fit my unusual drums.

Layers on external triggers is important, the Octapad doesn’t allow for layering on external sources, yet it does on internal pads…this may be because some pads are less accurate, but then let us have mix, crossfade, and all those other layer choices and we can get over it ourselves, Roland really dropped the ball on that, and it annoys me that I can’t use a decent snare sound on the octapad because I can’t layer, it just makes it dull. but also this means I can have toms that are lighter on the trigger inputs with a lighter stroke and then crossfade into a heavier tom as I hit harder, you can’t do that on a real drum but it allows great possibilities on a triggered drum for unusual sounds or just great sounds. imagine if it can be done on a machine that allows for 9 or 10 external triggers! Yes it’d take a lot of processing power, but that’s easy, my Macbook pro can do much more than that and not break a sweat, if the machine is designed to be able to do all this stuff and it’s hardware based rather than software based it should be a viable…

One of the most important things is the ease of use and playability, can I use it quickly to create great sounding parts? that’s the real key. and the kit editor on an iPad would need good design but would make a world of difference. all the editors I currently use for Roland products like the Juno keyboards, SPD, and the TD-12 are crap, difficult to use and look like an afterthought. Even the Mininova software for Novations newer keyboard is dull and poorly thought out…Making changes quickly can be great for getting the product more user friendly, and making changes on a gig because something isn’t quite right can be good too.

If you look at the graphical interface of something like Omnisphere, the keyboard sound library and sample studio, it’s been well thought out, and having a touch app that allows control over modulations and effects is brilliant, with bluetooth built in to the DTX Multi 12 the future is assured and with imagination the product would be amazing….anything you think up could be allowed for in an app update and firmware update because the two would already work together!!! Imagine if you had effects parameters on x and y axis on a touch pad? even better if you can choose any parameter from any effect and put it on the iPad screen, or on sliders on screen, a graph curve, maybe then the effects part of it will come to life!
That would be truly amazing!
 

cristaples

Junior Member
They could increase the user patterns to 500 too, it's minimal on memory, but it'd be useful to those that need to have some alternate cascara/palito stuff, and any other things that can be thought of. it's only midi data most of the time...

Audio input volume on the front panel as a separate volume knob, so we can mix our monitors more effectively, I see the latest firmware update allows click only output to phones for more control for those of us with in ear monitoring, this would also help.

Increase user kits to 500, each kit's data is very small in comparison to other things onboard. It's not memory intensive. Roland gave us 100 on the octapad update. But if I was a pro I'd still feel this was poor considering the kit memory requirements.

Also, the click on the SPD-SX has increments in tenths of a BPM, nice touch, but a little difficult for quick changes on the fly, you could have that for ultra nerds, but also have a simple mode where the click is only dealt with in whole numbers like we are used to….everyones happy, and it’s just a menu item..
 

cristaples

Junior Member
Thanks for the PM Hansolo, I hope you got my reply?


Got my multi 12 today, gonna give it a few days or so to get used to it, though I'm busy at the moment with lots of different projects.
I'm hoping to set up a couple of Depeche mode style kits, one light, one heavier.
a 909 style
808 style
dubstep style kit
drum n bass kit
latin percussion kit for use as a supplement to my acoustic kit
jazz blues percussion items
Rock Ballad percussion items
Electronic simmons style add ons
a general acoustic sounding kit,
something like a weckl percussion extras kit in two ways, one like his earlier playing, one like his current playing
Rock percussion kit.

This could take me months at present rate, but I'll get there in the end, I'm gonna make a reverse polarity lead for using my FD-8 Roland HH pedal with the yamaha too at some point, saves buying the yamaha version.

I'll also try and set up the triggers I use on my toms with the 5 inputs and a bass drum as well, there might be enough inputs when using splitter cables to do all 6 triggers.

I never trigger the snare, it always sounds a bit crap compared to the real thing and I use really nice snares anyway.
I want to try and use it as a stand alone, addition to my acoustic yamaha, triggering too....addition to my Woody Drums kit, also triggering but more mellow sounds, and also as adding extra foot pedal triggers when the Roland KT-10 comes out so I don't trigger and just use over heads and kick mic but have the pedal and HH controller present for electro and latin stuff..

Looks like I'll be learning a lot this next few months. I'm trying to learn Piano, Logic Pro X, watch Benny Grebb's dvd, practice some actual drumming, decorate and still go to work, and keep my wife happy! haha
 

cristaples

Junior Member
After two hours I realise that it's gonna take a lot of time to learn the DTX and how it can be programmed, an amazing bit of kit, especially once you get layering, but long winded in the editing.... also, sample length is restricted, I tried to put in a sample of the start of Metallica's Wherever I May Roam that we use from my SPD-SX, we had it lowered by a semitone, it won't fir....very annoying as I wanted to use the dtx in performance and all my samples only add up to 48mbytes, but at least 3 essential ones are too big to get in.

Yamaha's preset kits are not good at all, some have applications but not many, I like that I can program in synth notes and pitch them from the menu easily, the octapad won't do that, biggest downfall at the moment is the bad snare sounds, terrible and they machine gun like mad, no buzz rolls here!

Hansolo, your kits are cool, I like the tuned ones, especially the guitar distortion, gives me an insight to what is possible. I'm revising what i can do with the Yamaha, it looks like what I really want is an octapad voice set, with yamaha editing/pads,layering,triggering choices and roland sampling, with Roland edit menus, Damn!
Maybe better to use the DTX with the Roland Integra 7 for the supernatural drums but the layering in midi note numbers that is the big benefit of the dtx.

Blimey!
 

Hansolo

Senior Member
Hey cristaples,
I was a bit surprised to see this thread being recycled as there's been limited interest in the Multi-12, so thanks for the feedback.
I like your enthusiasm for suggesting improvements to the Multi-12 but don't hold much hope for a version 2 upgrade, as there's only been minor firmware mods in 4 years.
As you've already noticed with the preset kits and trigger settings, Yamaha made the standard drum kits sound very basic.
The other brand multipads have probably also been configured with built-in limitations to encourage sales of their e-drum kits.
Regarding the iPad suggestions, check out the new Alesis DM Dock which should combine well with the Multi-12: http://www.alesis.com/dm-dock

Wildbill - I gave up on us getting an editor for the Multi-12 long ago and just referred to the menu tree diagrams until I got used to them: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0so0jcelxkickw/Multi12 Menus.pdf
 
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