Wow, Neil Peart kinda sucks...

Anon La Ply

Renegade
That's very true. I guess Neil's extreme popularity over the last 30 years makes him an easy target. I mean, next to Carl Palmer, Peart sounds like Bernard Purdie. Palmer had chops and fit in great with prog rock bands, but he has no groove at all and his time is all over the place. But people focus on what he does well rather than his weaknesses, while Neil seems to experience the opposite.
I agree with this. Seems to me that CP plays best in complex passages. A stark contrast in the Tarkus suite. Carl was dazzling in the highly technical Eruption but did a lame job (by pro prog standards) in the following track, the ballad, Battlefield ("ballad" by ELP standards).

Mike, I disagree. CP was a monster in his prime, even if imperfect. What he did in Toccata was incredible. Also very fine on most of the Tarkus Suite, Karnevil 9, Take a Pebble ... nah, Carl rocked.

But yes, it's the way Neil is so overrated. How often has he been proclaimed best in the world when there are so many more advanced players around? Same syndrome with Travis and Joey.

Not that they'd much care. When enough people say someone's the best - no matter how wrong they are - then that opens the doors for big $$. I wish my suckiness got me a fraction of what their alleged suckiness it got them.

Agree totally with Numberless's comment about our evolution as players. Mind you, I'd be happy to be judged by my playing in the late 80s - I never got back what I lost after my long break in the 90s/00s.
 
I believe Neil went through a metamorphosis if you will. From what I understand, he completely re-evaluated his playing recently, and worked on all kinds of stuff from drum positioning to stick grip, and every part of his playing style, and took more lessons. To me, that says a lot about a musician. I could never play another beat in my life and be touted as one of the best ever, but I'm going to take lessons and try to better myself. That's amazing to me.

I didn't like Rush because I couldn't stand Getty Lee's voice, and still can't really, but I've learned to deal with it for the sake of listening to a great drummer, and great music overall. That's one group I would have love to see a different singer in.

All drummers have a style all their own, and a style of music which they prefer to play, which usually hones that style even more. Not letting ourselves get in a rut with one kind of music is of utmost importance to being a versatile musician. I would consider myself a hack musician and I'm not afraid to admit it. Why ? Because right from the get go, I wanted to learn multiple styles of music. I'm an '80s metal child, but my drum teacher (i have to find a new one now :-( ) is a jazz drummer. I can get into some POP, but don't care for most of it these days, but if I hear a catchy beat kind of song, I'll give it a shot, because it will improve my playing. I can't stand most country, especially the slow stuff, but you can bet the farm I'll play it because its so much more difficult to stay on with such a slow beat, and that's going to help me learn as well. So, it may be taking longer that most to get better in my drumming, but I'm also cramming in everything I can into my playing, so once I do get better, I will be a very well versed player, ready for any kind of music that comes my way.
 
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MikeM

Platinum Member
Mike, I disagree. CP was a monster in his prime, even if imperfect. What he did in Toccata was incredible. Also very fine on most of the Tarkus Suite, Karnevil 9, Take a Pebble ... nah, Carl rocked.
Okay, fair enough.
But yes, it's the way Neil is so overrated. How often has he been proclaimed best in the world when there are so many more advanced players around? Same syndrome with Travis and Joey.
What about John Bonham? There are dozens of drummers on this very forum whose usernames are derived from his, and it seems to me that there are at least as many swearin' up and down & startin' threads proclaimin' that he's the greatest drummer ever to stalk the face o' planet Earth. (then they get deleted, of course)

But I don't see any Peart-derived names on here. Sure, if you change some of the letters around, take a few out, and put in some others, you can make Peart into Balto or Sticks4drums... ;) And I have yet to see a thread titled: OMG! Bonzo SUX!

Is Peart really that much more overrated that Bonham? Actually, (I've asked this before) what does being overrated even mean?
 
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opentune

Platinum Member
I think its fine to get discuss and analyze it all, but have to say I think there are some very hard and harsh comments on here directed at these folks. If they were reading....ha...they'd be laughing...really.
They do what they do, and I'd like to think they did their best, and also did their own 'thang" and earned top dollar for it. We are here buying their stuff and typing on keyboards.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I honestly don't get these arguments about who's great and who sucks. I read in an old Sting interview, where he was asked what kind of music the Police plays, and he replied, we play Police music. When I was younger I thought he was being funny, but after years of thinking about that statement, he basically said they play their own music, and really no one else can play it - so there!

So Neil doesn't really swing, and Carl can't play less notes, but you have to admit there are no other bands out there like Rush, or ELP. Or King Crimson, or Yes, for that matter. The important thing is that their music is recognized. Hell, would you even want to hear Stevie Ray Vaughn play Broadway show tunes? No way - he was good at what he did and that's what we wanted from him. All these bands were these magical combinations - The Beatles would probably be very different (and had a very different outcome) if one of the Fab 4 was somebody else. Led Zeppelin? Who else could that be but those four guys? [Although I do give kudos to Jason for stepping in for his father on that recent tour, but I'm sure it was not the same].

So really, all these guys are great, they made the music that attracted us to it in the first place. Hell, I saw a VH1 thing on Bad Finger, and their drummer (I forget his name) had no technique whatsoever, but the combination of him with those three guys made them Bad Finger. I know we'll probably never stop arguing about who's better, but if you see it like I do, it all becomes a moot point, right?
 

aydee

Platinum Member
...

Agree with Bo. Question is, does somebody suck even if you dont like his playing? The answer is he doesnt if somebody else likes his playing.

...
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
What about John Bonham?

... Is Peart really that much more overrated that Bonham? Actually, (I've asked this before) what does being overrated even mean?
Never thought of that, but you're right. I think it comes down to what people like about them. Bonzo's loved for his groove, sound, power, juice, technique and outlandish fills. Neil's loved for his massive kit, outlandish fills, technique, power and creativity.

Truth be told, neither is known for having great dynamics and both plod at times. Of course drummers of their standard can operate at lower volumes but generally they're highly skilful belters playing loud music :)

IMO neither are "best" drummers ... they don't even come close to players like Vinnie, Phillips, Mangini,Steve Smith etc but you could say that about 99.999% of rockers and it doesn't matter anyway. They're all great at what they do.

For the record, I enjoy Bonzo and Simon most out of those guys but that has nothing to do with "best".


I honestly don't get these arguments about who's great and who sucks.

... So Neil doesn't really swing, and Carl can't play less notes, but you have to admit there are no other bands out there like Rush, or ELP. Or King Crimson, or Yes, for that matter. The important thing is that their music is recognized. Hell, would you even want to hear Stevie Ray Vaughn play Broadway show tunes? No way - he was good at what he did and that's what we wanted from him. All these bands were these magical combinations - The Beatles would probably be very different (and had a very different outcome) if one of the Fab 4 was somebody else. Led Zeppelin? Who else could that be but those four guys? [Although I do give kudos to Jason for stepping in for his father on that recent tour, but I'm sure it was not the same].

So really, all these guys are great, they made the music that attracted us to it in the first place. Hell, I saw a VH1 thing on Bad Finger, and their drummer (I forget his name) had no technique whatsoever, but the combination of him with those three guys made them Bad Finger. I know we'll probably never stop arguing about who's better, but if you see it like I do, it all becomes a moot point, right?
Great post, Bo. But I'd be happy to hear SRV playing anything - Broadway tunes, classical, whatever - I think you could have put him in pretty well any musical situation and he'd find a way to make your ears happy. One of the most gifted naturals I've seen.

Maybe that's what this thread is about?

Bonzo gives the impression of being a natural while Neil looks to me like he studied methodically and struggled and pushed endlessly with iron discipline and determination (no idea how true those impressions are). In many ways Neil's approach is more admirable, but naturals tend to have an x-factor that hard workers don't. Love Bonzo.

Young Sticks would no doubt point out that hard working Neil is still playing and improving while Bonzo drank himself to death.
 
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dmacc_2

Well-known member
I honestly don't get these arguments about who's great and who sucks. I read in an old Sting interview, where he was asked what kind of music the Police plays, and he replied, we play Police music. When I was younger I thought he was being funny, but after years of thinking about that statement, he basically said they play their own music, and really no one else can play it - so there!

So Neil doesn't really swing, and Carl can't play less notes, but you have to admit there are no other bands out there like Rush, or ELP. Or King Crimson, or Yes, for that matter. The important thing is that their music is recognized. Hell, would you even want to hear Stevie Ray Vaughn play Broadway show tunes? No way - he was good at what he did and that's what we wanted from him. All these bands were these magical combinations - The Beatles would probably be very different (and had a very different outcome) if one of the Fab 4 was somebody else. Led Zeppelin? Who else could that be but those four guys? [Although I do give kudos to Jason for stepping in for his father on that recent tour, but I'm sure it was not the same].

So really, all these guys are great, they made the music that attracted us to it in the first place. Hell, I saw a VH1 thing on Bad Finger, and their drummer (I forget his name) had no technique whatsoever, but the combination of him with those three guys made them Bad Finger. I know we'll probably never stop arguing about who's better, but if you see it like I do, it all becomes a moot point, right?
This times a million+....
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
I think its fine to get discuss and analyze it all, but have to say I think there are some very hard and harsh comments on here directed at these folks. If they were reading....ha...they'd be laughing...really.
They do what they do, and I'd like to think they did their best, and also did their own 'thang" and earned top dollar for it. We are here buying their stuff and typing on keyboards.
Speak for yourself. : )
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
...

Agree with Bo. Question is, does somebody suck even if you dont like his playing? The answer is he doesnt if somebody else likes his playing.

...
Going with that -- everybody's good at everything. It's just discussion.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
Well, yeah, he's no Nelson Montana. Enough said.

The word is, though, after the rehearsal wasn't happening, he had the humility to talk to the band to find out what he could do to get it together, and then actually go work on it.
Hey, I fully know my strengths and weaknesses, but I don't get your point. Are you trying to insult me because you disagree with me? That's lame.

And yeah, I'd say I swing better than Neil, but I can't play in RUSH nearly as well as he can, that's for sure.

And besides, my main instrument is the bass. I'm not sure how well Neil plays bass. But feel free to post your drumming and bass playing , so it can give credence to your argument.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Are you trying to insult me because you disagree with me? That's lame.
................... But feel free to post your drumming and bass playing , so it can give credence to your argument.
How on earth did get to this point from that post? You're jumping at shadows if ever I've seen it.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
The thing is, if you read any interviews with Neil, he knows he's stiff.

He readily admits it. It's the reason he went to Gruber. It's why he studies with Peter Erskine.

Which, is pretty incredible for a guy already considered one of the better/best rock drummer in the world, who's sold some 40-50 million albums to be humble enough to admit his weakness and take lessons to improve upon it. Most people with that much success don't go sign up for more lessons.

True, he doesn't much swing. And true, he does keep trying. Even as a huge Rush fan, I'd rather he stop trying at the end of every drum solo. I'd prefer the band play another song from one of their 20+ albums then hear another drum solo with big band ending.

On the flip side, Neil perhaps deserves some credit for at least attempting to keep Big Band music relevant to the younger generation. How many people ever hear that kind of music anymore?

Matt Smith said in the Letterman thread, how many people could name the song he was playing without being told, or know which rendition he was attempting to replicate? And if you don't know, how can you discuss what you don't know?

But quite simply, if you don't like, don't listen.

And thank you for the continued not liking, because it made it much easier for me to score a pit ticket for the Rush concert in November. Hell yeah!
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
How on earth did get to this point from that post? You're jumping at shadows if ever I've seen it.

Really? If so, my bad. But if someone said "He's no pocket full of gold, nuff said" -- how would you take it? If he was truly complimenting me, then he has my apologies and thanks.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
The thing is, if you read any interviews with Neil, he knows he's stiff.

He readily admits it. It's the reason he went to Gruber. It's why he studies with Peter Erskine.

Which, is pretty incredible for a guy already considered one of the better/best rock drummer in the world, who's sold some 40-50 million albums to be humble enough to admit his weakness and take lessons to improve upon it. Most people with that much success don't go sign up for more lessons.

True, he doesn't much swing. And true, he does keep trying. Even as a huge Rush fan, I'd rather he stop trying at the end of every drum solo. I'd prefer the band play another song from one of their 20+ albums then hear another drum solo with big band ending.

On the flip side, Neil perhaps deserves some credit for at least attempting to keep Big Band music relevant to the younger generation. How many people ever hear that kind of music anymore?

Matt Smith said in the Letterman thread, how many people could name the song he was playing without being told, or know which rendition he was attempting to replicate? And if you don't know, how can you discuss what you don't know?

But quite simply, if you don't like, don't listen.

And thank you for the continued not liking, because it made it much easier for me to score a pit ticket for the Rush concert in November. Hell yeah!
Ha! Agree with all points. But again, I think Moving Pictures is a great album and enough to cement Neils contribution. And I also get the feeling Neil is a nice guy.
 
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