Would you mix...

davor

Senior Member
light with medium and with heavy cymbals?

egor example... pst7 medium hats with thin crash and heavy ride?

Cant make up my mind on a medium or heavy ride. I guess the medium is the sensible option!
 

Supergrobi

Technical Supervisor
I'm mixing two Paiste 2002 Light Crash (16" and 18") with a 22" Paiste Twenty Ride and 14" Paiste 2002 Heavy HiHats. Apart from being in love with how they sound each my setup was selected by volume, too - the thin crashes aren't that loud and mix well with the ride and the heavy hats don't need to be played on the rim permanently to cope with the volume of the other cymbals when playing rock stuff.
 

drumnut87

Well-known member
i have some heavy hats, a medium crash, and a thin ride as a crash, so yes, you can mix and match, theres no rules, listen and see what sounds good! :D
 

davor

Senior Member
Trouble is...I'm not able to try them out first. The paiste website/ sound room is pretty good though
 

Supergrobi

Technical Supervisor
The paiste website/ sound room is pretty good though

..and quite accurate about how the cymbals sound - although it doesn't give you any information about the volume.
 

davor

Senior Member
Yes the volume...I'm wondering if the medium will cut if I'm playing with loud guitars, and also if the heavy would be too loud if playing quieter/mellower music?!

Going purely off the website id say I prefer the tone of the heavy
 

Supergrobi

Technical Supervisor
.I'm wondering if the medium will cut if I'm playing with loud guitars

If that's how your bands rehearsal room looks like...

MarshallStack_Slayer.jpg


...then maybe not. For me personally cymbals always have been a problem volume-wise, if on stage (okay, not in front of 5000 people but on gigs < 1k), in the studio or while rehearsing with my bands. But this depends on a lot of things, e.g. are you a heavy hitter, do you use a riser, what's the typical live situation (bars/cafes, small stages, large stages), how does your rehearsal room looks like (concrete walls, wood, dampening, size, height etc.) and even your sticks. So I fear there's no fail-safe recipe to this.
 

sumdrumguy

Senior Member
Yes the volume...I'm wondering if the medium will cut if I'm playing with loud guitars, and also if the heavy would be too loud if playing quieter/mellower music?!

I can't speak to Paiste, but I know the medium-thin Meinl's I play with a louder guitar/keys project cut through no problem. They also sound great with lower volume projects.

I have extra-thin, thin, medium-thin, and medium hats and crashes. More thin and medium-thins. I mix and match to suit music of each project, and tweak as needed for space/room.
 
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CommanderRoss

Silver Member
light with medium and with heavy cymbals?

egor example... pst7 medium hats with thin crash and heavy ride?

Cant make up my mind on a medium or heavy ride. I guess the medium is the sensible option!

I do this more for hi-hat pairs, but not a ride/hat combo.
I've gone as far as putting the medium on the bottom & the heavy on top.

I for one like heavy rides as I know they can take a whuppin' playing rock, yet with some dynamics, can be good for jazz.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Because of the “tessatura” of the cymbal frequency range, they will all cut through wherever they are. There’s nothing else in that frequency range so they’re like the piccolos in a marching band. And if things get too loud, by then a PA would be involved anyway and you’d be mic’ed up. So mix away if that’s what you like. No rules to abide by.
 

steverok

Silver Member
I always mix up cymbals. By my own tradition, I like a brighter Paiste 16" crash on my left, and a darker 17" or 18" Zildjian K crash on the right.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
oh hell yeah...the only thing I don't mix is anything with my Zildjians :cool:

On my rock/big/normal set up:
3 crashes: all 90's era Zildjians - 16" A Rock Crash; 18" A Meduim Thin Crash; 19" K Dark Thin Crash
I have my 90's era Zildjian 15" Quick Beat Hi hats and 13" A Custom's as my extra hats
90's 8" A splash; 90's 12" A Custom splash

on my jazz set up 2 crashes: 2000' era 17" K Dark Custom Crash; 50's era Zildjian 18" crash with rivets
50's era 14" hi hats
50's era 22" Ride

I could not imagine having all of the same line of cymbals, even though I tend to stick with Zildjians
 

johnjssmith

Junior Member
Sure, if everything sounds good together and that's the sound you're going for then go for it!

You won't have any issue cutting through with B8 Paiste cymbals, even the lighter specimen - Paiste cymbals in general have a glassy/bright quality to their ping that makes them cut through well, and B8 cymbals are brighter than B12/B15/B20 everything else being equal, and the volume being too low won't be an issue either, you might want to play softer or tape them up a bit to make them quieter instead, especially a heavy ride.
I couldn't use my Sound Formula 20" Full ride weighting around 2550g (and with a tiny bit of paper tape on the underside) at my last outdoor gig because it was much too loud and pingy for example, so a heavier ride with more copper in it is likely to be the same but worse if you find yourself having to use it at relatively small/quiet gigs, or in a smaller/untreated/less than ideal rehearsal space.
It's possible for every cymbal to be made to sound (a bit) louder or quieter, though a PST7 heavy ride it's unlikely to be too heavy for just quieter music, rather it might be too loud for anything unless you only play with a guitarist that's very pleased with himself and wants everybody to hear him as loud as possible.

As for their aptitude to different genres of music, while they do make a difference the player makes a much bigger one, and John Riley would sound like John Riley even if he was playing Zildjian Z cymbals, or Sabian B8, so just find cymbals that you like the sound of and maybe add new ones to your arsenal if you find yourself playing a certain genre that's typically associated with a different sound (lighter, washier and softer cymbals in jazz for example) more and more often.
I myself don't change my setup much from when I play louder classic rock to when I play straight ahead jazz, in fact at the gig I mentioned above I was playing Chicago, The Doors, Queen, Toto & related and I used the same cymbal setup I use for jazz, so don't stress it out much.

Another thing worth considering is that good quality cymbals make a (much) bigger difference than good quality drums, and PST7 cymbals are a good deal but they aren't exactly 2002, which can be found used and in decent to good conditions for relatively cheap, same for 404 and 505 cymbals, so you might rather find a few deals on used cymbals, which by the way are plenty these days, at least in Europe, instead of buying new PST7.

Also, remember to wear earplugs at rehearsals and gigs if you do end up getting cymbals for "harder" music genres, I hate to sound patronizing but I wish somebody had told me that when I started playing so bear with me :p
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
"Would you mix light with medium and heavy cymbals?"

Weight isn't the ultimate measure of a cymbal's character. It's an important factor, but it doesn't seal a cymbal's identity. Alloy, hammering, lathing, curvature, and bell size are of equal import. If you think certain cymbals sound good together, combine them. If you don't think they sound good together, segregate them. It's really not that complicated.
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
Consider this recording I did with Meinl Dry and Sand cymbals with a Paiste 2002 20" china that sounds entirely out of place with the Meinl cymbals, but under a mic in a recording fits well. It's about the tone more than the perceived brashness behind the drums.

Now, I must explain that the person who recorded and mixed the drums made the normally bright birch drums sound have no bite and the cymbals have no body, but I wasn't there to make comments.
Also, for my ego, they chose one of my worst takes for the drum part where I sped up in the bridge. The drums were recorded Glynn Johns style with snare and bass mics only. It's mixed by guitar centrists so the drums are lower in the mix.

Notwithstanding all that, the point of the link is to show that a cymbal that is completely incongruous to the sound of the other cymbals can sound appropriate under the mics, even if it's a bit hard to hear in the mix.
Here it is and the china cymbal is at about 56 seconds into the song. it's not entirely evident but gets the point.
https://soundcloud.com/wyoung%2Fthedaymybuddahfellofftheshelf
 
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Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
Yes absoulutely mix 'em as your ears please. Like Bo mentions- the picture changes when they go through a PA system, an extreme example is Steve DiStanislao using a flat ride behind David Gilmour's guitar in a full stadium.

Like you said in the opening post a medium ride a good place to start with. In the future if your needs change you can add more into your collection of sound choices.

Here's some ideas from the folks in Notwil: http://www.paiste.com/e/support_set_proposals.php?menuid=319
 
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