Worst idea in Drumming

hvymtlmike

Senior Member
Ok ok.....To all of those bashing the double pedal lol....I can agree that people should learn to play the drums not learn to just play fast double bass......BUT saying it is useless or a bad idea is just like saying the same thing about your floor tom(s). I use double bass in a lot of my music but rarely do I use it in straight 16th pattern... When applied correctly double bass can definately add a certain something.... I will say learn single first...There that's my compromise I met halfway ;)
 

B-squared

Silver Member
I am not going to disparage the so-called "Virgin Kick", but the idea that mounting toms to the bass drum hurts the sound is just ridiculous. I'm a structural engineer and I have some idea of the physics involved and this "old wives tale" has gone way too far. Structurally, a damper is added at the point of the mount which will change the modal frequencies of the shell. However, it is only the frequencies in the audial range that would be of any consequence and it would take an extraordinary set of conditions for the tom mount to have any noticible negative effect. It's even more trivial when you consider that the spurs go from the shell to the ground and essentially act as infinite dampers on the shell. Then there is the fact that the heads can be tuned independently of the shell configuration which makes the impact of adding a tom mount even more inconsequential. (The idea that wrap hurts sound is just as silly).

I would love to set up a blind test with two bass drums - one with a tom mount and one "virgin" - and bet one of the perpetuators of this myth $1000 that they could not pick out the "virgin" kick more than 5 times out of 10 different tunings. I have nothing against virgin kicks but I think it's time for the myth to go.
 
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tard

Gold Member
(The idea that wrap hurts sound is just as silly).

Precision drums seems to think that wrap reduces vibration and therefore reducing resonance and can actually kill the resonance if only wrapped and not glued on but I cannot confirm it as I have not tested this theory but I do know for a fact that there is a very noticeable difference between my lacquer finished drums and the exact same kit with the natural wood non lacquered finish which have a lower and warmer tone and quite a bit more resonance with the same heads and tuning. Plus if hardware attached to the shell reduces resonance and distorts the sound vibrations causing odd harmonic overtones then its safe to say a tom mount and spurs attached to the shell would do the same.
 
Honestly, I hate brand bashers. I hate people who think my kit is cheap since it's not Japanese or American made. I have this one friend who got a 5 piece Mapex Saturn 2 up, 2 down for Christmas. Yeah that's cool I guess but he only has ZBT's and a repaired 16" A Custom Crash. Well I got a Pearl Vision VSX (Birch/basswood) 5 piece 2 up, one down with a snare that I worked my ass off to buy. So that day forward, all I here is: "Mapex is the best and Pearl sucks except References." Along with "You should have gotten American or Japanese made drums cause Taiwan and China drums suck." and "Mapex drums and hardware NEVER break!" He's a total ass about it. And you better bet that I caught shit when my height adjustment collar on my 900 snare stand broke. And what's he getting for Christmas? A new Bosphorus Turk 22" ride that mommy and daddy bought for him. Well, you stick with your Saturns, ZBT's, Bosphorus, Pearl 900 Double pedal, and Enforcer hardware. I'm much happier with my Visions, Armand Ride, Dream Bliss Crash/ride, Zild. Platinum Rock Hats (Soon to go. For sale btw.), Pearl Hardware, and Iron Cobra. OH and I like Saturns, no bashing.

Also I can't stand people who bring way to much stuff to a gig. Same friend brought his whole 6 piece Saturns to a jazz gig. Bass, snare, 2 rack toms, 2 floor toms, ZBT hats, Crash that's inverted and drilled (Sounds kinda cool), China, ride, and A Custom Crash AND his double pedal. Way too much for jazz. He's not even really that good which is sad.

Also, Pearl's tom mounts are big and bulky BUT: Get them set where you want, clamp it and you're set. I've never had any of those mounts fall or fail on me. Floortoms FTW!
 

B-squared

Silver Member
Yes, if wrap isn't glued then the section is not, structurally speaking, a composite section. I'm not sure why anyone would leave wrap unglued, but I wouldn't doubt it has been tried. I wouldn't recommend it.

The point I was trying to make is that it's ridiculous to nitpick things like tom mounts when the kick drum shell is already fitted with lugs, spurs, and presumably a pedal, all of which dampen the shell. It's like sitting a bell flat on the ground, and then getting upset that someone wrapped a piece of tape around it - complaining that it hurts the sound. Then there is the fact that most drum shells are wood, and wood is made from trees, and even trees of the same species are not exactly the same in density and hardness. So if you add wrap to the shell, who's to say that is making the sound worse? I think it is far worse to sell a new drummer on the idea that he/she should play a virgin kick with no wrap, even if it's what they prefer, and base the argument on principals that aren't supported by physics.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Honestly, I hate brand bashers........

So that day forward, all I here is: "Mapex is the best and Pearl sucks except References." Along with "You should have gotten American or Japanese made drums cause Taiwan and China drums suck." and "Mapex drums and hardware NEVER break!" He's a total ass about it.

I see that you've already met Sticks4drums then. :)


[Sorry Sticks.......but that one was an opportunity far too good to let slide ;-)]
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Also I can't stand people who bring way to much stuff to a gig. Same friend brought his whole 6 piece Saturns to a jazz gig. Bass, snare, 2 rack toms, 2 floor toms, ZBT hats, Crash that's inverted and drilled (Sounds kinda cool), China, ride, and A Custom Crash AND his double pedal. Way too much for jazz. He's not even really that good which is sad.

I can't imagine how that sounded, but it doesn't look hopeful.

No matter what anyone's said here I still think the worst idea in drumming is replacing us with machines. How could anything be worse than that???

We're all drummers. United we stand, divided we fall ... an inspiring speech to help us rise up against the machines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrOkYkXOZoY

:)
 

Nuka

Senior Member
Gothic black doom jazz country metal. Wow gotta hear that!

Anyway, *prepares to get stabbed* I love my double pedal. Not a bad invetion whatsoever, and a lot more useful than lugging about two bass drums. I don't use it for straight 16ths, 32nds or anything like that. My band plays Scandinavian type metal and I love playing triplet grooves with them and the odd extra bass when needed. I do seomtimes run on them but only briefly. I hate songs that run all the way though. Unless it's Meshuggah's Bleed.

Anyway

Worst ideas...

For me have to be Ahead sticks, triggers (sorry I still don't get them), Pitch Black cymbals (WHY paint cymbals?), people with more than two bass drums (FIVE? Really?), people with a drum:cymbal ratio of 1:5, Stagg drum sticks (match sticks are better), snare buckets that tilt in every direction possible, boom stands that don't lock and stay up, light cymbal stands that fall over and lastly a personal one for me, "tin can" snare drums. I just hate the sound of a metal snare, especially with a cheap head on it.

Rant over :p
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
all I here is: "Mapex is the best and Pearl sucks except References." Along with "You should have gotten American or Japanese made drums cause Taiwan and China drums suck." and "Mapex drums and hardware NEVER break!"

Apparently he's not aware that his Saturns are made in China. You're the lucky guy who gets to tell him. :)
 

Nuka

Senior Member
"Mapex is the best and Pearl sucks except References."
Also, Pearl's tom mounts are big and bulky BUT: Get them set where you want, clamp it and you're set. I've never had any of those mounts fall or fail on me. Floortoms FTW!

Mapex aren't the best, that's what's so funny about him saying that. Seeing as drumming is individual, it depends on what sounds good to you. But I love some of the smaller comapnies as well as my prized Mapex... people like Highwood or Jalepeno...

Also I can't stand people who bring way to much stuff to a gig. Same friend brought his whole 6 piece Saturns to a jazz gig. Bass, snare, 2 rack toms, 2 floor toms, ZBT hats, Crash that's inverted and drilled (Sounds kinda cool), China, ride, and A Custom Crash AND his double pedal. Way too much for jazz. He's not even really that good which is sad.

This has been me in the past. Almost a 70's/80's power metal sized kit for playing rock/drumnbass/hiphop style stuff for one of my old bands haha. Difference is, I could play it all.

Apparently he's not aware that his Saturns are made in China. You're the lucky guy who gets to tell him. :)

Mm cheap Chinese drums. Again another thing I like about Mapex... so good for "cheap chinese crap" xD

Maybe I'm from a different breed of drummers, but shouldn't we respect eac other and what we paly rather than slagging off other people's kits? What's comfy for one isn't comfy for another. Unless you're being a dick. Then you deserve to be slagged off.

Though I'm assuming Mitch that you didn't have a go at him first? :p

I personally don't like Pearl's, but I've palyed them before and they do sound good. So I have respect for them for that :)
 

longgun

Gold Member
I can't agree with alot of the posts....always loved roto-toms and I have a pair of ahead sticks and like them...guess I'm in the minority.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is those string tuning contraptions. Don't even know if they worked or not, man they looked awful.
 
Thinking of it - I will try and remove all resonance heads on toms and bass drum...and give a go like in the old days!
 

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Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Precision drums seems to think that wrap reduces vibration
They're correct, but that only has an impact on thinner shelled drums. Above 3/8" (9.5mm) it makes little to no difference. On thinner shelled drums, it reduces shell resonance/tone, but increases volume & projection. The affect is similar to increasing shell thickness, & the same affect as any increase in mass. It's up to the individual player as to whether that's a good thing or not.
 

larryz

Platinum Member
Rocktagons for sure. I worked at the Sabian distribution house when they came out, and they were and are horrible.

Another eye sore is those snares, I think pork pie? with the 4 inch vent holes. God, why use a maple shell if you are just going to cut half of it away.

So THAT explains the crazy unnamed snare someone's been trying to sell on my local CL for the last year or so. I didn't want to bother the seller by asking what the "f" it was. Nuttiest thing I ever saw.
 

DrummerBri

Junior Member
I really like the big deep toms! Don't understand the hate?

The ones that really bug me are the ones that are like 12 x 8 - they look like weird snare drums. I'm a fan of the bigger beefier tom. My rack tom is 14x12 - Sort of Bonham esque


oh and I remember seeing some old Nirvana videos where their original drummer had bent toms like this:
staccatoadvert.JPG


I think they were called staccato drums...

I remember seeing Heart in 1980 and Roger Derosier used a kit that looked just like those. First and only time I ever saw something like that live.
 
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