Wobbly Ride

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
Law of unintended consequences:
Playing country tunes with brushes - I found that standard wires don't get any response from cymbals or hats. Bought some heavier, wood handled nylon brushes which do, and that I love the feel of - like soft, sensitive sticks.
Problem is - I need to hit my cymbals pretty hard with them compared to sticks and the ride starts to oscillate and wave up and down like a dinghy in a hurricane.
Is it acceptable to clamp down the felt and wingnut to control the movement?
And - does anyone use a hard washer under the wingnut to apply an even pressure? Seems to make more mechanical sense than letting the wingnut bury its 'wings' in the felt to this beginner.
 

iCe

Senior Member
Brushes are more or less designed to play the snare. Because of their construction you'd get a much lower sound from cymbals than a regular stick. Instead of hitting the ride with a much denser object, you hit it with an object that is much smaller and thus transfers much less kinetic energy.

Just out curiosity i tried searching for brushes and stick hybrid and whaddayaknow...

Vater Wire Tap Stick Brush
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Seems like the stick you are looking for. Play like brushes, need some louder cymbal sounds you just flip the stick instead of grabbing another stick, dropping it etc. :)

To tighten a cymbal down use some more felt strips that have a little more give than something harder.
 
the ride starts to oscillate and wave up and down like a dinghy in a hurricane.
Is that a big problem if the sound is alright? I wouldn't clamp the ride into a fixed position because it kills the sound and you have to hit even harder. And it can potentially damage the cymbal when you switch to heavy playing with sticks.
Aside from that: the white Vic Firth brushes are pretty heavy and might give you a louder stroke. Or thin maple sticks if you don't like rods.
 

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
Is that a big problem if the sound is alright? I wouldn't clamp the ride into a fixed position because it kills the sound and you have to hit even harder. And it can potentially damage the cymbal when you switch to heavy playing with sticks.
Aside from that: the white Vic Firth brushes are pretty heavy and might give you a louder stroke. Or thin maple sticks if you don't like rods.
These are the brushes I'm using - they've still got sensitivity for low volume playing on the snare - but the heft is there for your cymbals too. They feel great in the hands when you're used to sticks too.



My only worry is the way the ride rebounds from20200716_155552.jpg
the slap it gets from them.
(I should point out I'm not a brush technique purist at all - it's just the low volume balance that the band needs and the 'slap' on the snare.)
 
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Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
Does the movement of the cymbal matter?
Perhaps not ... only recently stepped up from an electronic kit, so have little idea how a real ride behaves, but it looks a bit out of control to me. Sounds fine though, yes.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Does the movement of the cymbal matter?
Perhaps not ... only recently stepped up from an electronic kit, so have little idea how a real ride behaves, but it looks a bit out of control to me. Sounds fine though, yes.
Unless the movement of your ride hampers your playing in some way, I wouldn't worry about it.

As long as you aren't crashing your ride, you can tighten it quite a bit without ill effect. Doing so should stabilize it considerably. Try several tensions and see how you like them.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Is it acceptable to clamp down the felt and wingnut to control the movement?
And - does anyone use a hard washer under the wingnut to apply an even pressure? Seems to make more mechanical sense than letting the wingnut bury its 'wings' in the felt to this beginner.
I use washers on felts with the wingnuts. I dont like how it wears the felt out unevenly.

You can clamp the ride down if you want. I have no idea what it will do to the sound using brushes. It shouldn't hurt the cymbal, especially using brushes.

FWIW, my ride wobbles also. The boom stand it's on is almost fully extended, so there is some movement. Moving cymbals is okay.
 

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
I use washers on felts with the wingnuts. I dont like how it wears the felt out unevenly.

You can clamp the ride down if you want. I have no idea what it will do to the sound using brushes. It shouldn't hurt the cymbal, especially using brushes.

FWIW, my ride wobbles also. The boom stand it's on is almost fully extended, so there is some movement. Moving cymbals is okay.
Thanks. And good to know I'm not the only one who thinks felts work better with washers too. 👍
 

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
Unless the movement of your ride hampers your playing in some way, I wouldn't worry about it.

As long as you aren't crashing your ride, you can tighten it quite a bit without ill effect. Doing so should stabilize it considerably. Try several tensions and see how you like them.
Excellent, thanks. And no, I never crash the ride. (y)
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Oh man I love crashing rides. Not full on usually. Sometimes, for the giant "mother of all crashes" in very certain situations...

I use shoulder spanks on the bow pretty regularly as a sort of a controlled crash accent when I want a crash tone, but not the volume. A lazy crash if you will. Holding back sounds great in my world. I like it for accompanying.

For years I used to use and crash a 21" Sabian RBDR. A rather thick cymbal not known for crashing. It sounded completely different...much better...to me on the recording than from behind the kit. So I kind of disregard what I hear from behind the kit to a certain extent, because I know from the recordings what things sound like in the crowd.

I'm never miced and have to tune my drums to at least a medium high tuning with no muffling so they don't sound like dead splats, which I detest. It's not the punchiest sound from behind the kit, but over the years I've learned to prefer that sound...for unmiced drums. Because I know they punch where it counts, out there.

If I were close miced then this all changes. When I am miced, I prefer 2 overheads, kick, and snare. Nothing close on the toms so I don't have to muffle. They retain that airy atmospheric sound I like, with sustaining toms. I've wandered off course.

That said, the Agop rides are pretty thin and very crashable. They open up easily. Supremely crashable.

Crash that ride! It's fun and free!
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
That said, the Agop rides are pretty thin and very crashable. They open up easily. Supremely crashable.
That's an important quality if you're going to crash a ride. As a rule, I play a medium ride. Crashing it would be like smacking a frying pan. The frequency would be a tad offensive as well, at least for most of the music I perform.

Years ago, I had a Zildjian K Crash Ride that was very versatile, though its tone was too dark for my taste.
 

Peedy

Senior Member
I don't use rides as crashes either. They're just too thick to feel good beneath my sticks for that purpose. Their crash sound is usually too harsh for me as well.
Suddenly I’m wondering what you ride (Zildjian S) and how much it weighs.

Pete
 

Peedy

Senior Member
Excellent, thanks. And no, I never crash the ride. (y)
Also try different diameter felt washers at the same tension. A HH felt under a cymbal will allow it to move more freely and may give you a better balance mechanically and sonically. Be prepared to have a few on hand as they’ll wear out sooner (i. e. crush) if you go that route.

Pete

Edit - credit for this idea came from an old Jazz drummer I know. Said he does it when he wants “more action” in his cymbals. I do have original thoughts, just not this one.
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Suddenly I’m wondering what you ride (Zildjian S) and how much it weighs.

Pete
Hey, Pete. My current ride is a 20" Zildjian S Medium. It weighs 2435 grams. Owing to their modern rotary hammering and fine symmetrical grooves, S cymbals have lower profiles and greater flex than most A and K equivalents. Some As and Ks feel rigid and brittle by comparison.
 
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