Why the hate? (Lars Ulrich)

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
But I don't get the Napster thing. Yes he was a colossal d-bag about it, but wasn't he right? Napster was a big theft ring.

Really? Someone took something from Lars? He must be broke and feel so violated that people are listening to his music! The horror!

Lars was being a shill for the record industry, who is actually the entity that stands to lose real money from people not buying physical media or paying their dollar per song fees.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Acted like a front man, was the drummer.

To be fair to him, he very much is a front man though.

Granted, he doesn't stand at the front of the stage and sing, but there's only two guys who call the shots in that band.........and Lars is one of them. Nothing gets done with respect to the juggernaut that is Metallica unless Lars signs off on it.

I'd protect my business interest just as vehemently if people could just download my work and not pay me for it.
 

axisT6

Senior Member
I'm sure The Beatles feel a great deal of shame.........when they're not too busy counting their billions that is.

Haven't listened much to the Beatles. What i meant was, as a drummer, if you can't physically play piece, don't doctor a recording so that it seems you can because it will be a big disappointment in a live setting.
 

Winegums

Silver Member
I started listening to Metallica and Avenged Sevenfold at the same time during highschool and Lars sounded very bland compared to the Rev, so from the start I wasn't very impressed. I had bought City of Evil and Master of Puppets to listen to and there was no competition as to who was the better drummer. I could never love Lars' style of drumming like I did with the Rev's.

It's quirky, sloppy, forced and a bit simple for the level of music that James, Kirk and Cliff were coming up with. The guitar work on MOP, RTL and AJFA is what I like the most about Metallica and is by far more inspirational in my guitar playing than Lars' drumming.

Maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's just plain old frustration? I don't like Lars because he was the weakest link in the band, that limited them to playing simplier tracks. I can hear the potential for something much greater when I listen to their older albums, if only the drumming wasn't so lack luster.

The end result is I followed the Rev as my inspiration for drumming rather than Lars because it feels like he really put effort into improving with every album.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
I started listening to Metallica and Avenged Sevenfold at the same time during highschool and Lars sounded very bland compared to the Rev, so from the start I wasn't very impressed. I had bought City of Evil and Master of Puppets to listen to and there was no competition as to who was the better drummer. I could never love Lars' style of drumming like I did with the Rev's.

It's quirky, sloppy, forced and a bit simple for the level of music that James, Kirk and Cliff were coming up with. The guitar work on MOP, RTL and AJFA is what I like the most about Metallica and is by far more inspirational in my guitar playing than Lars' drumming.

Maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's just plain old frustration? I don't like Lars because he was the weakest link in the band, that limited them to playing simplier tracks. I can hear the potential for something much greater when I listen to their older albums, if only the drumming wasn't so lack luster.

The end result is I followed the Rev as my inspiration for drumming rather than Lars because it feels like he really put effort into improving with every album.

This goes to my earlier point.

You can't just compare them side by side without look at the historical context.

Lars set the precedence, and put his better works before the Rev ever owned a drum set.

City of Evil is a great album, but it also came out 19 years after Master of Puppets.

The Rev, like many others, took was Lars did and improved upon it.

So while Lars went backwards, he should still get some credit for laying the groundwork that allowed The Rev and AX7 to build upon.
 

JustJames

Platinum Member
Haven't listened much to the Beatles. What i meant was, as a drummer, if you can't physically play piece, don't doctor a recording so that it seems you can because it will be a big disappointment in a live setting.

Seriously?

Pretty much every musical act on the planet simplifies aspects of their recorded works when they perform them live. A recording and a live performance are miles apart, and have been for an awfully long time.

You prolly won't know "Heart of Glass" by Blondie. It's a disco-y track from the late 70's. The drumming on it is nothing remarkable. But I read that it took days of tracking the toms individually to get it sounding right. I am confident that this is not an isolated example.
 

axisT6

Senior Member
Seriously?

Pretty much every musical act on the planet simplifies aspects of their recorded works when they perform them live. A recording and a live performance are miles apart, and have been for an awfully long time.

You prolly won't know "Heart of Glass" by Blondie. It's a disco-y track from the late 70's. The drumming on it is nothing remarkable. But I read that it took days of tracking the toms individually to get it sounding right. I am confident that this is not an isolated example.

I know heart of glass. You missed my point. I wasn't talking about getting the sound right.

Take Dyers Eve from Metallica's Justice album. It is rumored that the 16th note double bass played through out the whole song is either looped or played by someone else. Add to this the fact that when played live, Lars never plays the double bass.

My point is, if Lars could not physically play the 16th note double bass at the time Dyers Eve was recorded, then 16th note double bass should not be in the song. On the flip side, if Lars did play those parts when the song was recorded, then he should play them like that live.

This is all my opinion anyhow.
 

Winegums

Silver Member
This goes to my earlier point.

You can't just compare them side by side without look at the historical context.

Lars set the precedence, and put his better works before the Rev ever owned a drum set.

City of Evil is a great album, but it also came out 19 years after Master of Puppets.

The Rev, like many others, took was Lars did and improved upon it.

So while Lars went backwards, he should still get some credit for laying the groundwork that allowed The Rev and AX7 to build upon.

I'm not comparing them from a complexity or method stand point. I was being critical of how much they improved over the course of three albums. While I hear Lars improving a bit over those first three albums, I see marked progress from the Rev.

If I were to compare them as to who's more famous or older, sure Lars is going to win. Thing is that that says nothing about their level of musicianship nor does it take into account progress over time.

Who's to say who you can compare and can't compare? This is the drummers section in a discussion forum after all.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
I know heart of glass. You missed my point. I wasn't talking about getting the sound right.

Take Dyers Eve from Metallica's Justice album. It is rumored that the 16th note double bass played through out the whole song is either looped or played by someone else. Add to this the fact that when played live, Lars never plays the double bass.

My point is, if Lars could not physically play the 16th note double bass at the time Dyers Eve was recorded, then 16th note double bass should not be in the song. On the flip side, if Lars did play those parts when the song was recorded, then he should play them like that live.

This is all my opinion anyhow.

You could make this same argument about Kirk Hammet. He cant play shit live. Honestly his playing live is awful. The solos sound nothing like they do on the album. He uses a wah pedal as a safety net for parts where he cant play the correct notes, which just so happens to be the entire solo. He is a hack.

The only person who can still actually play their part correctly is James. If you listen to him play with a clean tone, he hits every note. He doesnt need to hide his lack of skill behind a distortion pedal.

So what does this say about Lars? Not much. He's just a guy who is in a band that only has one good musician in it. And he's not it. He was influential in his day, but now people look to other drummers for inspiration. So what.
 
Really? Someone took something from Lars? He must be broke and feel so violated that people are listening to his music! The horror!

Lars was being a shill for the record industry, who is actually the entity that stands to lose real money from people not buying physical media or paying their dollar per song fees.

So if nobody is paying for music, you think only the record companies suffer?

Just because someone says "stealing as wrong" doesn't mean they're saying "record companies rule". The industry is corrupt and terrible, but stealing the music doesn't seem to have hurt them much. Artists, on the other hand ...
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
So if nobody is paying for music, you think only the record companies suffer?
Yes, and it's already happened. Almost nobody I've ever come across recently says they pay for music. Lots of folks go to youtube, or other similar, some still file-share, lots make copies of other's music collection. I'm talking about actual music lovers buying good stuff, not the crap pop music that the record industry still pushes on the masses. The best I can find is a few folks who buy used records and cds, and the bands get nothing from that.

Things have changed. Bands today can do best by getting good deals on the shows they play, selling merch, and promoting their music as their service, rather than trying hard to sell something that is basically an infinite resource that costs almost nothing to re-produce.

Visual artists don't make money when people take in their work online, or appreciate it in a gallery. But they still do those things, because that's how they promote themselves in an era where digital copies of things are stupidly easy to make, and the reality is that you're not taking anything physical from anyone.

Just because someone says "stealing as wrong" doesn't mean they're saying "record companies rule". The industry is corrupt and terrible, but stealing the music doesn't seem to have hurt them much. Artists, on the other hand ...
Stealing is wrong, but I think the term is being mis-appropriated here. Making a copy of something non-physical is just not the same thing as taking something away from another so they no longer have it. The fact is nobody really gives a rats ass about anything physical like CDs; and only the ultra-in crowd is involved in the recent vinyl renaissance.

Lars can be a douche all he wants, he can certainly afford it. Forgive me if I don't listen to rich douchebags go on about how much money we owe them for listening to their music.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Stealing is wrong, but I think the term is being mis-appropriated here. Making a copy of something non-physical is just not the same thing as taking something away from another so they no longer have it.

+1

Theft requires deprivity and is a crime. Violation of copyright is a civil tort and involves the circumvention of a government granted monopoly. The other term they misappropriate is "piracy", which involves maritime law and is a truly serious offense punishable by death.

They're all bad, but need to be addressed separately despite industry lobbyists attempts to confound the issues.

Just be glad there are no "methods" patents for making music.... yet.
 
+1

Theft requires deprivity and is a crime. Violation of copyright is a civil tort and involves the circumvention of a government granted monopoly. The other term they misappropriate is "piracy", which involves maritime law and is a truly serious offense punishable by death.

They're all bad, but need to be addressed separately despite industry lobbyists attempts to confound the issues.

Just be glad there are no "methods" patents for making music.... yet.

The problem I have with this type of pedantry is that it doesn't scale. We're moving towards a society where physical copies are the exception, rather than the rule. So if we maintain the idea of "it is only theft if I physically deprive you of it", it becomes more difficult to defend your electronic property.

If I write an e-book and you steal a copy, that's just as much theft in my mind as you taking a hardback copy off a shelf. We can argue legal terms all day, but that's why one of the first things teachers tell aspiring lawyers is "you're here to learn law, not justice".
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
it becomes more difficult to defend your electronic property.

If I write an e-book and you steal a copy, that's just as much theft in my mind as you taking a hardback copy off a shelf.

The first thing I want to clear up is that it is not "property". Property is a very specific thing in law, and comes with a number of rights that copyright does not include. You don't own the music. Even that music which you have written is not your property. You own the media (masters) and have an exclusive right to make copies and distribute them. "Intellectual property" is another term misappropriated by industry lobbyists that attempts to confound issues involving copyrights, patents, trade marks, and trade secrets... each of which has their own set of laws. None of which is even remotely related to property law.

I understand that violating copyright is considered immoral, in the same way that theft is immoral, and I'm in complete agreement that artists should be compensated for their work. My focus is on trying to figure out (from a technological standpoint) how it's all going to work in the future.

We're in a position where entire record company catalogs exist on Freenet. A little searching even yields masters for a number of albums. There is nothing that can be done from a technological standpoint to remedy that. You can literally upload/download/listen to any song, any time, unencumbered, without fear or consequence, tracking, or liability.

We need to figure out how professionals are going to get paid before darknets become engrained in popular culture, before the industry takes it from us again, and before teenagers start going to jail for for the crime of listening to our songs.
 

Friedmett

Senior Member
He is one of the many drummers to inspire and my setup is like his late '80s anyway even down to the brand of drums.

The first 4 albums to Lars was him trying to compete with the rest like Benante, Lombardo etc. Having Cliff in the band would properly epxlain that as he was the musical culprit who kept practise up every day.

By the end of the Justice tour he was burned out by the progresive playing the last 9 years had made him as far as drummer.

From technical to love for Phil Rud of AC/DC and simple groove oriented playing.

He also got bored of playing the same parts over and over on tour. Metallica never really changed the set list to much and Lars would update the parts.

In the studio the skills did not match what they wanted so cut and page to get the drums right. For Justice they could have saved 1 month in recording according to Flemming Rasmussen.

Lars is not a born musician just happened to be in Metallica and boom it took of success wise faster than they could tire their shoes.

So Lars the drummer is half a joke really but he did set the bar of what he able to play and that earns my respect.
 

kwolf68

Senior Member
Lars gets the hate, because he deserves it.

-Lars started off a ground breaking band, a great metal band and his playing WAS GOOD back in the day. I saw numerous Metallica gigs and he pulled off the songs damn good. He nailed the complicated stuff on ...And Justice with no issue.

Then they got rich. No problem here. Rich is good. But for some, rich means you lose perspective. Lars became an art dealer, and enjoyed spending his vast millions on pomp and sow. But Lars still had a job.

I can't say the studio drumming on recent records is bad, because Death Magnetic is good drumming, but his live performances are simply brutal beyond belief. He literally looks like a guy that either

A-Just making payroll. Gotta do this gig
B-Isn't sure how the song goes, and sorta makes it up as he goes along

He is awful. Inconsistent tempo, drum roll fills that are placed haphazardly in the songs, most of the songs simply NOT PLAYED accurately. These are songs HE FREAKING WROTE.

if you cant even play For Whom the Bell Tolls correct (a majestically simple song) then you have no hope. Jason Newstead's comments upon leaving Metallica should also shed a bit more light on it when he inferred/implied that Lars had not kept up with his drumming craft.

The level of improvement from the simple/fast stuff on Kill Em All to the nearly progressive tinged opus ...And Justice For All was the work of a kid who worked his ass off to become a good drummer. The trajectory SINCE then has been gross and embarrassing.
 
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