Why is this config popular?

[Woolwich]

I thought that 13, 16, 22 used to be the standard and was well loved but nowadays the change had been made to 12, 16, 22 and that's what people didn't want!

 

[BobC]

could always get 4 pc. .....Since the 20s flapper days.
why "the Rail" was invented ; )
..for 4 pc sets

71-1, 70s .......greatest looking Cat picture..
maybe I can't count but that looks like 4 to me.
But don't Quote me.

Vintage Snare Drums online Ludwig, Slingerland, Leedy, Camco, Gretsch, Sonor

Vintage Drum History is all about history for Ludwig Drum HIstory, Slingerland Drum History, Rogers Drum History and the History of Vintage Drums, Vintage Snare Drums amd Vintage Drum Sets.

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Pardon me, but as the 70's wore on, five piece sets were nearly impossible to find. I wanted a four piece set around 1977-78, and when I went to the music store, I was told that I would have to buy a five piece, and remove a tom.

 

[K Chez]

To me the sizes aren't as important as the difference between them. One kit is 2" steps, 12-14-16-18 toms w/24 bass, the other is 3" steps, 10-13-16-20 w/24 (20" floor because a 19" doesn't exist!)

 

[harryconway]

I wanted a four piece set around 1977-78, and when I went to the music store, I was told that I would have to buy a five piece, and remove a tom.

Sounds to me, like the "salesman" who told you this, simply wanted the LARGER commission on a 5 piece kit. But ..... a few pieces of info. are missing to this story. "What" price range were you looking at, and from "which" manufacturer. In 1977, yes, it would be very hard to get a Tama, Pearl, Yamaha mid-level kit, as a 4 piece. But 4 piece kits were available on the high end sets. Certainly Gretsch, Ludwig, Rogers and Slingerland offered 4 piece kits, so there is some "underlying" issue to this story

 

[s1212z]

Not a fan of the 12-> 16 interval but I get the 14 floor can be thin for some. 15s seem be becoming more popular, seems like a nice compromise.

 

[jda]

Some truth to makers wanting to put a double tom post on everything
and devolve the rail but...
some single -yet post holders were developed
75-77

80

73

Rail ^ on it's way out..

until time was taken ^ to Single post developed. v

Ludwig's 80 take on a Post single

Rogers in 76- single

 

[jda]

then when Maxwell came around he (and others) reintroduced the old/couple bolt + variation of the W/A Rail.
Cause people weren't giving up on the four piece
But you may have had to look hard in the mid 70s. As the transition- rail to Single post (big hole) holder- hadn't developed/ widespread use/ fruition.
1/2 pt. Les Misérables

 

[BobC]

Sounds to me, like the "salesman" who told you this, simply wanted the LARGER commission on a 5 piece kit. But ..... a few pieces of info. are missing to this story. "What" price range were you looking at, and from "which" manufacturer. In 1977, yes, it would be very hard to get a Tama, Pearl, Yamaha mid-level kit, as a 4 piece. But 4 piece kits were available on the high end sets. Certainly Gretsch, Ludwig, Rogers and Slingerland offered 4 piece kits, so there is some "underlying" issue to this story

It was a Ludwig set, and at the time, I was told Ludwig did not offer a four piece set. It's always possible that the salesman wanted me to buy a larger set, but I did look at a catalog. Maybe someone has a 77-78 Ludwig catalog so we can see if what they offered.

 

[jda]

Rail until a single post was developed and rail phased out.
There's the 76 Catalog Four Piece

Still with the Rail

 

[Moejo]

Thats why they consider them "standard sizes". Its a good interval between the notes provided by the shell size. I prefer a 13 over a 12 on a 4 piece myself. A 12 dont go as low as 13, but a 13 can be tuned up like a 12. Theres more versatility with a 13 IMO. I do like my 12/16 set from the 40s, but I prefer the 13 16 config over 12/16. Cant speak for a 12/14 setup, I dont own a 14" FT.

 

[specgrade]

12, 13 and 16 is what I got and going snare, 12 to 16 sounds really nice. Rolling 13 to 16 sounds nice as well and is what I grew up on for accents. I just can't bring myself to lose a tom.

 

[harryconway]

It was a Ludwig set, and at the time, I was told Ludwig did not offer a four piece set. It's always possible that the salesman wanted me to buy a larger set, but I did look at a catalog. Maybe someone has a 77-78 Ludwig catalog so we can see if what they offered.

Yes ..... you were lied to (or the guy was a total idiot - maybe a guitar player working in the drum section) . The 4 piece kit appears in the 1976 catalog here ..... https://www.vintagedrumguide.com/ludwig_drumsets_1976.html and the 1980 catalog here ....... https://www.vintagedrumguide.com/ludwig_drumsets_1980.html Don't have a scan of 77/78/79 ..... but the 4 piece kit was available those years as well.

 

[DrumEatDrum]

Why do manufacturers default to a 13” Tom on a 22,13,16 configuration? I hate this, I would much rather have 22,12,16…. Is it just me?

The story I've always read was way back before drums had any real standard sizing, Gene Krupra went to the Slingerland warehouse.
Out of a stack of various prototypes, Gene picked a 13" rack tom and 16" floor tom and declared those were the only two sizes he needed.

And so that is what went into production and it just stuck from there.

If it's quite that simple, I don't know. Probably not. But Gene is largely credited by historians as being a significant person in defining the standard band drummer's kit.

But you have to remember back at the time when drums went from just being vaudeville sound effects to actual jazz sets, big band music was popular. Drummer mics didn't exist yet. Drummers needed the power to cut through the brass. So bigger toms made sense to get the volume to be heard over an entire big band. So a 13" over a 12" just made sense at the time.

Personally, I don't own a single 13" tom.

 

[BobC]

Gene was certainly influential in getting Slingerland to do things like make toms with tunable top and bottom heads. He was definitely the first guy to request that, and since he was Slingerland's main endorser, and the top drummer in the country, they obliged. He also made many suggestions on hardware improvements like putting tilters on cymbal L arms and stands. He also dutifully used certain types of hardware, brackets, stands and pedals that Slingerland manufactured, because he felt he owed them that much. In truth, Slingerland owed almost everything to Gene.

As far as the four piece sets, I know at the time I was told, "You can't get a four piece set anymore. You have to buy a five piece and remove a rack tom." Maybe he was just trying to sell me a bigger set, or maybe he didn't stock four piece sets.

It was a long time ago!

 

[I-P]

Yes, just you 😘

 

[Philaiy9]

Personally, I think the jump from a 12" to a 16" is too much. 13" to 16" is the perfect interval for me.

 

[Jasta 11]

i just played a backline kit that is a 5 piece but someone took the 13 away so it was 12-16...terrible jump in tone from the 12 to the 16. It was miced up already and i was too lazy to change it. never again. the kit is an Yamaha absolute custom birch so it wasnt the drums themselves.

 

[ravenson]

Could it have been the most cost effecient and least wasteful way of cutting up a 4x8 sheet of ply veneer ? ?

 

[1 hit wonder]

I may try the 12-16 tonight with this convo in mind.
Personally, it's the 16 that is the major issue. Maybe it's floppy, less controled head tones will grow on me at some point. Mic'ed with an SM-57 in a mix with my current (and loud) bar band it isn't really a problem.
At home practicing, I like the 14". If the 12 tones are helping me appreciate the 14 more, idk, we'll see.

Is it true that Maple drums were heavily utilized as a response to amplification, because more volume was needed?

 

[Stroman]

Could it have been the most cost effecient and least wasteful way of cutting up a 4x8 sheet of ply veneer ? ?

I think people underestimate how much ease/efficiency of manufacturer plays into decisions like this.