Why Is There Such An Anti-Jazz Vibe Here?

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
A lot of people just say "I haven't noticed anything like that". Well, it's real easy not to notice it when you're not a jazz musician. However, I have grown quite tired of this constant label of snobbery being thrown at jazz musicians. Like in a different thread I was reading earlier when somebody said "We're not all jazz snobs who think that drumming has to have rules and regulations and that somehow "talent" means playing with the smallest amount of gear possible."

I'm so sick of people constantly singling out jazz musicians as snobs. I have never heard anybody here refer to people as being rock or metal snobs. It's always jazz just getting singled out, and if you think there aren't any rock or metal snobs then you live in a fantasy world.

I came here because I love discussing music, especially with other musicians. Yes, jazz is my favorite, but there are a lot of other styles I enjoy as well, and I love to talk about them with other musicians. However, there's just such a negative vibe towards jazz musicians and I don't understand why.

BTW I'll shatter the above quote with two words: Louie Bellson. Louie often used a very large kit and was the nicest musician I ever met, hands down.
 

Garvin

Pioneer Member
I definitely haven't noticed any kind of overall anti-jazz vibe. What I do notice is that any thread with the word jazz in the title inevitably balloons to a dozen or more pages and essentially covers the same material.

I do think that there are a number of people who don't play, listen to, or really have any idea what they are talking about regarding that genre, and it is human nature to attack the unknown.

For the record I generally abstain from these threads because it turns into a part-time job having to monitor the ensuing discussion, but in short, I don't feel alienated, or misunderstood as a jazz fan/musician on this forum.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
First rule of Jazz.
1) No matter what you play or how you play it, you are doing it wrong!

Second rule of Jazz.
2) Someone can't wait to tell you that you are doing it wrong!

Third rule of Jazz.
3) Jazz is the most rewarding if you Listen to it, Play it, And NEVER talk about it.

I've been here a while, can you tell!
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
First rule of Jazz.
1) No matter what you play or how you play it, you are doing it wrong!

Second rule of Jazz.
2) Someone can't wait to tell you that you are doing it wrong!

Third rule of Jazz.
3) Jazz is the most rewarding if you Listen to it, Play it, And NEVER talk about it.

I've been here a while, can you tell!
4) No matter what you play or how you play it, you are doing it right.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
I'm so sick of people constantly singling out jazz musicians as snobs. I have never heard anybody here refer to people as being rock or metal snobs. It's always jazz just getting singled out, and if you think there aren't any rock or metal snobs then you live in a fantasy world. .
There are plenty of those as well.

Heck, read youtube comments below almost any metal video, and there are a ton of "snob" like posts.
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
I definitely haven't noticed any kind of overall anti-jazz vibe. What I do notice is that any thread with the word jazz in the title inevitably balloons to a dozen or more pages and essentially covers the same material.

I do think that there are a number of people who don't play, listen to, or really have any idea what they are talking about regarding that genre, and it is human nature to attack the unknown.

For the record I generally abstain from these threads because it turns into a part-time job having to monitor the ensuing discussion, but in short, I don't feel alienated, or misunderstood as a jazz fan/musician on this forum.
It wasn't even said in a jazz thread, and it's little remarks like these that I always see in other threads. It's always a Jazz = snobbery thing and I'm just tired of it. The thing is I know I'm not the only one who feels this way because I have talked to other members on here that are jazz musicians and they told me that they felt the same way.


First rule of Jazz.
1) No matter what you play or how you play it, you are doing it wrong!

Second rule of Jazz.
2) Someone can't wait to tell you that you are doing it wrong!

Third rule of Jazz.
3) Jazz is the most rewarding if you Listen to it, Play it, And NEVER talk about it.

I've been here a while, can you tell!
LOL Bob
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
What you're going through, Michael, is the natural evolution of posting. At first you may feel that the jazz discussions are hijacked by certain posters. Then you'll come to see the difficulty of having a discussion when there are so many points of view involved, and not all are as informed as the next.
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member

WayneWickman

Senior Member
I'm a fly-fisherman too (man, you have to use really small hooks to catch those flys) and we always get the "snob" comments on fishing boards. Not sure why I'm posting, maybe just to lighten things up before they get out of hand.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I feel like someone should run for miles with a torch in their hand and then use it to light a giant torch to open one of these threads.
Let the games begin.

I see that all of the usual suspects are beginning to show up for this thread.
 

ccsimms

Senior Member
I think jazz discussions turn into so many arguments because it's such an open, expressive genre of music. You could start many arguments on this, the definition of music, whether drums are a musical instrument (which is one other musicians tend to wanna joke about), etc.
 

con struct

Platinum Member
I've seen plenty of posts from jazz drummers where they could very well say, "Yes, I see what you mean," but instead they say something to the effect of, "How dare you say such a thing? I'm a jazz drummer and you're not."

Now that's just counter-productive. I think that a few so-called jazz drummers that post here make themselves appear to be dour, cranky and humorless martinets.

Also, you, as a jazz drummer, have to be aware of the fact that jazz is for all intents and purposes pretty much a dead duck where the music business is concerned. It's just not relevant to the majority of the drummers who populate this forum.

Myself, I very much believe that every drummer owes it to him or herself to check out real jazz drummers. I've always made it point to do so and the jazz drummers I've met were not in the least bit snobbish or in any way off-putting. To the contrary, they were only too glad to share whatever they could with a fellow drummer.

If you love what you do why should you care about what anyone else thinks? It's obvious that very few people know anything about jazz, but that's nothing to take personally. If someone's got it wrong then they've got it wrong and there really isn't much more to it than that.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I suggest you go to cymbalholic.com. There are a lot of jazz drummers on that forum, and most of the regulars are very good-humored. I read that forum much more often than I post there.
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
I think jazz discussions turn into so many arguments because it's such an open, expressive genre of music. You could start many arguments on this, the definition of music, whether drums are a musical instrument (which is one other musicians tend to wanna joke about), etc.
True ccsimms, but my question isn't why jazz discussions turn into heated arguments. My question is why do people constantly stereotype jazz musicians as being snobs?
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
I've seen plenty of posts from jazz drummers where they could very well say, "Yes, I see what you mean," but instead they say something to the effect of, "How dare you say such a thing? I'm a jazz drummer and you're not."
Well, I must say that I haven't seen any of that, but I also just come here to take part in discussions about music, so I don't go into any of the technique threads. However, stereotyping jazz drummers as being snobs just because there's the occasional jerk with those types of comments isn't fair.
 

con struct

Platinum Member
Well, I must say that I haven't seen any of that, but I also just come here to take part in discussions about music, so I don't go into any of the technique threads. However, stereotyping jazz drummers as being snobs just because there's the occasional jerk with those types of comments isn't fair.
I agree with you. It most certainly is not fair.
 

BGH

Gold Member
I'm 53, playing since 8 years old. My drumming has included every style you can think of, including jazz. In an ideal world, jazz would be my preferred genre. I've done big-band gigs, combo gigs and duo gigs with a pianist. I've also done tons of rock, top 40, weddings, etc.

I've only been here for a couple of months, but must say I haven't noticed any negative vibe towards jazz players. In fact, I've participated in threads where jazz players were discussed as favorite drummers, bassists, etc. I've seen plenty of jazz players mentioned in positive light. You seem kinda angry about it, but, its like anything else. Take it for what it is. Its a public forum. People will say what they will, and you're not going to agree with everything or how its stated.

Its supposed to be a fun thing. I'm enjoying it. If you don't have a good time here, well, you know what to do...
 
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