Why does everyone make fun of Lars?

pibroch said:
Based on what? Have you seen any recent (say, 2020) videos of Dave's playing and compared it with recent (2022) live Metallica videos? In my view a good performer knows their limitations.

Otherwise thanks for your thoughtful reply.
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Yes. Yes I have. Plenty of videos out there. It’s trivial to find them.

However you slice it, since the mid-90s, Lars has been nowhere near as good as Dave Lombardo (even taking into account individual styles). Any counter-argument is just taking a contrary position for the sake of it.
 
Mediocrefunkybeat said:
Yes. Yes I have. Plenty of videos out there. It’s trivial to find them.

However you slice it, since the mid-90s, Lars has been nowhere near as good as Dave Lombardo (even taking into account individual styles). Any counter-argument is just taking a contrary position for the sake of it.
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Well I'm talking 2020 to date - that's how I slice it. Back in the mid 90's they're different drummers to what they are now.

BTW where have you been finding your recent videos of Dave? The most recent one where I could clearly hear his playing live was a one-song 2020 "drum cam" one - maybe he was having an off day, I don't know.
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat said:
I'm sorry, you're just wrong. Lars has improved and is a lot better than he was 20 years ago but he's still nowhere near the level he was at his peak. Of all the hills to die on...
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Well hopefully there'll be plenty of videos of Dave playing live with Testament in the next couple of days and hopefully I'll have to eat my words!

Do you plan to see them at Catton Park in August? I know it's about 3 hours drive from Canterbury!
 
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pibroch said:
Well hopefully there'll be plenty of videos of Dave playing live with Testament in the next couple of days and hopefully I'll have to eat my words!

Do you plan to see them at Catton Park in August? I know it's about 3 hours drive from Canterbury!
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No plans to see anything at the moment. Re-mortgaging and trying to get a garden office means that funds are a little tight.
 
Nice idea! I had a garden office - a converted garage in the back garden. Stopped working, got rid of a desk, and it's now my "music studio" with drum kit - just large enough to rehearse a 6 piece band.
 
Lars is legit legendary at this point, but he is kind of a jerkoff whether you like his drumming or not. He ruined their first few albums by demanding the bass be turned down so low you can’t hear it most of the time, all to show himself off, then blamed the producer. Every time he said “That sounds stock” in their movie made me want to punch him. He seems to think he invented metal. And Robert Trujillo once said only two people in Metallica are allowed to make mistakes, and no doubt most of it comes from Lars these days since James seems to have turned into a human over the years.

But I do respect his drive and willingness to do stuff that’s unexpected and doesn’t go over with their most hardcore fans, the majority of whom are even bigger jerkoffs. And yes, I am talking to you, the whiners who predicted that every album they put out since Kill ‘Em All would end their careers, whining that they went commercial and then whining that they’re not commercial enough. I have often wondered whether Howard Stern or Metallica has the worst hard-core fans in existence, and I’m pretty sure it’s Howard but Metallica is darn close.

So because of the sheer volume of awful fans who still buy every single album and think constantly bitching about it makes them seem way smarter as they sit in Mom’s basement at age 40, I get why Lars is like he is to a certain extent. I still think he’s still got some jerkoff left in him, but I get it.
 
Mediocrefunkybeat said:
I take your point but Reign in Blood was 1986. I think that was the bar-raising point. Master of Puppets the same year. Lombardo’s playing is faster, more intense and I would argue in the long-term more influential.

‘One’ was a semi-mainstream hit a couple of years later, no doubt about it. But to those in ‘the scene’, ‘Angel of Death’ was the one to emulate, I’d imagine.
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and I would present Anthrax's "Gung Ho" on the 1985 album "Spreading the Disease" as well. At least as fast as Reign In Blood, a year earlier


Charlie Benante often times gets forgotten as a founder of speed....
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
and I would present Anthrax's "Gung Ho" on the 1985 album "Spreading the Disease" as well. At least as fast as Reign In Blood, a year earlier


Charlie Benante often times gets forgotten as a founder of speed....
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I was going to mention Charlie earlier in this thread but then the voice inside said "don't open that can of worms". As soon as "One" came out and the hard core Metallica fans caught their collective breath from what was initially thought of as a "sellout" for MTV and other non-hard core fans got to actually see Metallica and Lars with that double bass part even I was like "wow" at the time. Then I remember immediately being tossed an Anthrax album and I was like "Oh, OK"......

Lars was influential, no doubt. I think folks in forums look back at players and compare them to what their current heros can play today and think "they really weren't that good", people do it with Ringo, Bonham, Neil, Lars, etc. Often times what is lost in that mind frame is context. The context of what was done in drumming up to the point when the Ringo, Bonham, Lars etc did "their thing". Sure the modern dudes are technically amazing, but if the classic drummers hadn't done their thing to break through the existing ceilings and push the musical art, the new dudes wouldn't have the foundation to continue to do what they are doing now. Like him or hate him, Lars was also one of those dudes.

It's easy to throw shade at what was the cutting edge of music 40, 50 or 60 years ago, the 20-30 year olds have never known a world without the internet and videos etc of everything they can possibly want to learn. Bonham and Lars etc were doing their thing when today's young drum heros' parents were kids still.......all about context.

OK, that is today's installment of "Get off my Lawn by River19"......😄
 
River19 said:
I was going to mention Charlie earlier in this thread but then the voice inside said "don't open that can of worms". As soon as "One" came out and the hard core Metallica fans caught their collective breath from what was initially thought of as a "sellout" for MTV and other non-hard core fans got to actually see Metallica and Lars with that double bass part even I was like "wow" at the time. Then I remember immediately being tossed an Anthrax album and I was like "Oh, OK"......

Lars was influential, no doubt. I think folks in forums look back at players and compare them to what their current heros can play today and think "they really weren't that good", people do it with Ringo, Bonham, Neil, Lars, etc. Often times what is lost in that mind frame is context. The context of what was done in drumming up to the point when the Ringo, Bonham, Lars etc did "their thing". Sure the modern dudes are technically amazing, but if the classic drummers hadn't done their thing to break through the existing ceilings and push the musical art, the new dudes wouldn't have the foundation to continue to do what they are doing now. Like him or hate him, Lars was also one of those dudes.

It's easy to throw shade at what was the cutting edge of music 40, 50 or 60 years ago, the 20-30 year olds have never known a world without the internet and videos etc of everything they can possibly want to learn. Bonham and Lars etc were doing their thing when today's young drum heros' parents were kids still.......all about context.

OK, that is today's installment of "Get off my Lawn by River19"......😄
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An excellent post. I'm a strong advocate for using context in this and many other areas.
 
Woolwich said:
An excellent post. I'm a strong advocate for using context in this and many other areas.
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Exactly. It's like saying the first repeating rifle kinda sucks compared to modern day weapons. Yes, yes it does. But compared to a musket or bow and arrow it was an amazing step forward. Context.
 
River19 said:
I was going to mention Charlie earlier in this thread but then the voice inside said "don't open that can of worms". As soon as "One" came out and the hard core Metallica fans caught their collective breath from what was initially thought of as a "sellout" for MTV and other non-hard core fans got to actually see Metallica and Lars with that double bass part even I was like "wow" at the time. Then I remember immediately being tossed an Anthrax album and I was like "Oh, OK"......

Lars was influential, no doubt. I think folks in forums look back at players and compare them to what their current heros can play today and think "they really weren't that good", people do it with Ringo, Bonham, Neil, Lars, etc. Often times what is lost in that mind frame is context. The context of what was done in drumming up to the point when the Ringo, Bonham, Lars etc did "their thing". Sure the modern dudes are technically amazing, but if the classic drummers hadn't done their thing to break through the existing ceilings and push the musical art, the new dudes wouldn't have the foundation to continue to do what they are doing now. Like him or hate him, Lars was also one of those dudes.

It's easy to throw shade at what was the cutting edge of music 40, 50 or 60 years ago, the 20-30 year olds have never known a world without the internet and videos etc of everything they can possibly want to learn. Bonham and Lars etc were doing their thing when today's young drum heros' parents were kids still.......all about context.

OK, that is today's installment of "Get off my Lawn by River19"......😄
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I agree...and was never really a Lars hater...but I also got out of Metallica at the Black Album as they turned less thrash and more grunge, and I was going further underground for music. I got into Metallica in 84, after hearing RTL on a cassette tape at Boy Scout summer camp, and it was definitely cutting edge for this young metalhead from C-bus Ohio. The heaviest/fastest things I heard at that point was Iron Maiden (heavy) and Minor Threat/SOA etc (speed). That fall, I got turned on to Anthrax, Slayer etc via the Metallica "gateway"

by the release of "One", hearing double bass that fast was "old hat" to me personally, and by that time I was getting into the first wave of death metal and black metal.

Lars was never an "idol" of mine at the time, but I didn't "hate" him either...it was disappointing to see him go backwards as a drummer as they got more popular, but to me, the whole band went backwards honestly. To this metalhead, they became the ultimate "sellout"...showing me for the first time what that meant. I am over it now, as age and wisdom has taught me that being a "sellout" is not that big of a deal to most people.

I guess my biggest beef about the whole situation is that he gets notoriety for being good by proxy of being a recognizable name. Not for his actual abilities. But I also have this beef about a lot of "legendary" musicians who are actually mediocre - at best - musicians, who became legendary for other things they are associated with.
 
Mediocrefunkybeat said:
The thing is, I respect anybody that can make a career by playing music. And that includes Lars.
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I always come back to that spot as well. For some reason a lot of folks see to be very binary in the way they look at things. "If you aren't a fan. you are a hater"......when in reality you can respect someone's ability, technique, music etc while also admitting it just isn't something you particularly care to listen to.

The less flashy guys always tend to be fodder for internet forum chop-heads. Whether it is Ringo, Charlie Watts, Larry Mullen Jr. etc. IMHO, none of those folks give a flying fig what someone on the interwebs thinks about their playing as they have sold out more stadiums and sold more music than anyone pecking at a keyboard right now.......

It's music, play what blows your hair back.
 
River19 said:
none of those folks give a flying fig what someone on the interwebs thinks about their playing as they have sold out more stadiums and sold more music than anyone pecking at a keyboard right now.
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Probably not--well, certainly not at least one of those guys--but I think about how Phil Collins has admitted that all the stuff people said about him for years really added to his mental health issues. Now, that was more his songwriting than his drumming, but my point is the guy had sold over 50,000,000 albums and yet the mean stuff folks said about him really crushed him. Do I think Lars or Larry are likely to come onto this august forum? I do not. On the other hand, this is the best place to talk about drums online, we've all noticed that drummers really love talking about drums, and we've got a lot of serious pros who do come on here at least occasionally, so I try to keep my negative opinions to myself (although I'm sure I fail more than I realize), just in case and because why not?
 
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