Who Are The Worst Drummers That Are Good In Spite Of How Lousy They Are?

evolving_machine said:
Louie Bellson (above)
Neal Peart (above)

Neal seems to be playing Cottontail like a rock song.
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nope...

he was not as well versed in true jazz feel...the whole Burning For Buddy thing - at least to me - was sort of rough (I am also not a Buddy Rich fan...). I really did not get into the whole thing and I am a huge NP fan...so I will admit that it was weird

but to say that he is a bad drummer who got notoriety for being a good drummer is not right given all he did in the style that he lived in...

even if you don't like him...you have to see what he did do well. For instance, I really don't like John Bonham, or Zeppelin, but I will not deny that they were good at what hey did
 
To me I like his stuff (Peart), but he was limited. A lot of what he did was very narrow.
2008 This version is better then the 1991 version.
And again 1991
 
Id argue that while some drummers you know may or may not be great at what they do, they are still getting paid rather well for their services.

F
 
Florian said:
Id argue that while some drummers you know may or may not be great at what they do, they are still getting paid rather well for their services.

F
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getting paid rarely is a requirement of having talent...it is usually a result of a bunch of lucky events coming together...even events that seem orchestrated started out with some luck
 
Charlie Watts.

Discuss…
 
drumnut87 said:
every drummer that ever existed sucked or sucks to somebody, cant please everyone.
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but there are some who have been lucky enough to ride the coattails of fame...like Charlie Watts mentioned above, that are truly not really good players...I also think of Phil "Philthy" Taylor of Motorhead fame...pretty rough. But in both the Stones and Motorhead, the characteristic feel of the groups are due to the quirkiness of the drummers.

and by good I don't mean "technical"...I mean people who can hold a smooth/groovy beat, and are creative. And I also don't think that the technical drummers are all automatically good either...

I guess I am not reading the main point of the thread as "Drummers that you don't like etc. etc. " There are many drummers that I do like, or that I like the bands they are in - like Motorhead, AC/DC, Celtic Frost - who are not the best players.

Juniper said:
Mick Shrimpton

(RIP)
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oh yeah...he was awesome, and Stumpy Joe Smalls as well <- large, blonde geek with glasses
 
evolving_machine said:
To me I like his stuff (Peart), but he was limited. A lot of what he did was very narrow.
2008 This version is better then the 1991 version.
And again 1991
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I think you are grabbing a snapshot in time with that. After that he studied with Gruber and Erskine and improved a lot. Not earth shattering but competent. Now flip it around and put Rich or Erskine behind the kit for a Rush show and imagine how that turns out.

The issue here in my opinion is a predisposition that jazz/swing is the epitome of the art form. I would beg to differ.
 
Actually I think drummers like Rich, Bellson and Elvin could do the work in Rush.
 
AudioWonderland said:
LMAO
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You don't think any of those three could play the Rush parts? I'd imagine Bellson, in particular, thanks to his time with Ellington and Basie, would have very little problem recreating anything Peart ever played. (This isn't to say Buddy and Elvin couldn't also, just that I think of both of them as being such strong-willed individualists that I wonder if they could bring themselves to care enough to actually try.)

But writing those parts? That's what I've always thought Peart's strength was—Ringo-like, actually, in that regard: composing surprising parts which fit perfectly, don't get tiresome to hear (just the opposite), and which no one else would have thought of.

It's like something I read once, many years ago, about Kind of Blue: even at the time, there were many other professional players who could have played every solo Miles Davis played on that record, and not one other who could have written them. That's what I've always thought so special about Ringo. And while Peart doesn't even come close to making my personal top 10 favorite drummers—Elvin, for instance, is at least a dozen slots higher in my personal ranking—the same goes for him.
 
GretschedHive said:
You don't think any of those three could play the Rush parts? I'd imagine Bellson, in particular, thanks to his time with Ellington and Basie, would have very little problem recreating anything Peart ever played. (This isn't to say Buddy and Elvin couldn't also, just that I think of both of them as being such strong-willed individualists that I wonder if they could bring themselves to care enough to actually try.)

But writing those parts? That's what I've always thought Peart's strength was—Ringo-like, actually, in that regard: composing surprising parts which fit perfectly, don't get tiresome to hear (just the opposite), and which no one else would have thought of.

It's like something I read once, many years ago, about Kind of Blue: even at the time, there were many other professional players who could have played every solo Miles Davis played on that record, and not one other who could have written them. That's what I've always thought so special about Ringo. And while Peart doesn't even come close to making my personal top 10 favorite drummers—Elvin, for instance, is at least a dozen slots higher in my personal ranking—the same goes for him.
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Fascinating thoughts. I agree. Especially the part about Buddy not being willing to play Rush parts as written. Lol
 
GretschedHive said:
You don't think any of those three could play the Rush parts? I'd imagine Bellson, in particular, thanks to his time with Ellington and Basie, would have very little problem recreating anything Peart ever played. (This isn't to say Buddy and Elvin couldn't also, just that I think of both of them as being such strong-willed individualists that I wonder if they could bring themselves to care enough to actually try.)

But writing those parts? That's what I've always thought Peart's strength was—Ringo-like, actually, in that regard: composing surprising parts which fit perfectly, don't get tiresome to hear (just the opposite), and which no one else would have thought of.

It's like something I read once, many years ago, about Kind of Blue: even at the time, there were many other professional players who could have played every solo Miles Davis played on that record, and not one other who could have written them. That's what I've always thought so special about Ringo. And while Peart doesn't even come close to making my personal top 10 favorite drummers—Elvin, for instance, is at least a dozen slots higher in my personal ranking—the same goes for him.
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On their best day I think they would struggle with a lot of the material. They may play time through it well enough and get through it but the subtle variations Peart did, the feel of the tracks etc is something they would struggle with in my opinion.

Your point on composing vs playing is legitimate. Creative vision and simple performance are different things
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
but there are some who have been lucky enough to ride the coattails of fame...like Charlie Watts mentioned above, that are truly not really good players...I also think of Phil "Philthy" Taylor of Motorhead fame...pretty rough. But in both the Stones and Motorhead, the characteristic feel of the groups are due to the quirkiness of the drummers.

and by good I don't mean "technical"...I mean people who can hold a smooth/groovy beat, and are creative. And I also don't think that the technical drummers are all automatically good either...

I guess I am not reading the main point of the thread as "Drummers that you don't like etc. etc. " There are many drummers that I do like, or that I like the bands they are in - like Motorhead, AC/DC, Celtic Frost - who are not the best players.



oh yeah...he was awesome, and Stumpy Joe Smalls as well <- large, blonde geek with glasses
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I struggle with the thought that Charlie Watts isn't to be considered a "good" drummer. The material doesn't require flash or craziness, and no one is more solid. The man plays jazz when away from the Stones...

But then again, I'm a hack, so what do I know?
 
GretschedHive said:
But writing those parts? That's what I've always thought Peart's strength was—Ringo-like, actually, in that regard: composing surprising parts which fit perfectly, don't get tiresome to hear (just the opposite), and which no one else would have thought of.
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Exactly. Thank you for this. Being able to compose is a talent (discipline?) that is not readily learned.

When I compose my little diddys and play/record my drumming to them, I struggle to compose a good drum part. I'm constantly amazed at drummers who lay down such great parts which work so well with the music.

Exhibit #1: Come Together. What great drum composition and what excellent sonics of his kit (a towel? Tympani mallets? I have no idea what Ringo did on that recording but it works so well).

Exhibit #2: Tom Sawyer. Ignore the amazing fills (if you can). Who on earth would've thought, "This needs 16th notes on the hi-hat"?
 
Composing drum parts is an art, especially parts that are unique and characteristic AND fit and add to a song.

If you're a drummer, or musician, who simply plays or mimics what's written or recorded/already created by someone else that might be somewhat lost but listen to The Beatles and Rush, both Ringo and Peart came up with many great drum licks/tracks.

I am very bemused by some of this thread content.
 
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