WHISKEY DRINKERS?

Cmdr. Ross

Silver Member
Jack Daniels Single Barrel.
I gifted my father a bottle of that for Father's Day 2 years ago & he never went back.
Bliss.
 

Sonar Dave

Well-known member
Perfect example of "Single Barrel" being a meaningless statement. What's in the bottle did not get aged in a single barrel.


Just haven't had the right Whisky yet then, clearly :cool:
I've tried them all. Some Whisky is better than others, but they're still not bourbon.
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
I've tried them all. Some Whisky is better than others, but they're still not bourbon.
Hahahaa yes, okay if you've tried every one of the options I'll concede you clearly know better than I.
How many are there? I am very curious to try them all too 🤩
 

Cmdr. Ross

Silver Member
Perfect example of "Single Barrel" being a meaningless statement. What's in the bottle did not get aged in a single barrel.
I respectfully disagree with this.
If you investigate how Jack Daniels makes it's black label over the Single Barrel, you'd see how meaningful it actually is.
It's a very different process.
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
I respectfully disagree with this.
If you investigate how Jack Daniels makes it's black label over the Single Barrel, you'd see how meaningful it actually is.
It's a very different process.
Not really about respect or agreeing or disagreeing. I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm telling you a fact. It's like listening to techno and trying to argue the drums are being played on an acoustic kit.

Q - Does JD Single Barrel taste identical year in year out? A - Yes. Explanation - because it did not come from one barrel. Fact.

Therefore saying "single barrel" is not a literal statement, and is made-up marketing statement because the US doesn't have legal requirements for using it. You could not call a scotch single barrel, without it literally coming from one barrel. JD, of any variety, is therefore a blend, 'single barrel' is of fewer barrels than the other expressions, for sure, but it is not a "single barrel", if you cannot taste (not you per se, but if one cannot taste) the difference between the same whisky/whiskey over several years (hell, regular US barrel (ASB) is about 200L, if theres no flavour difference in more than that volume, then it did not come from one barrel and is therefore blended or "married" as the Scotch would put it, if from one distillery.

If it came from one barrel then that barrel will wear out, like a tea bag, and a new one must be used for the next batch of however many bottles. Every barrel is unique, and you cannot have an identical flavour year in year out from a single barrel.

This doesn't even start to take into account vintage of grains, with each year and each harvest having its own nuances of the crops, or chemical variations in the water over time from various factors like rainfall or human influence.

So as I said, Jack Daniels Single Barrel, is a perfect example of "Single Barrel" being a meaningless statement.
What's in the bottle did not get aged in a single barrel. It could just as well be "JD premium" or "JD blue label" or "JD fancy bottle". The name is just a marketing name, not an indicator of its implication, that's all I was saying about it. I like it more than regular JD, sure, however, I find its branding dishonest and I don't approve of such dishonesty from producers of what I drink.

I don't really know how many there are now. I've been sober for 2 years and 81 days. But I used to be a pro.
Sorry, my former comment was pure sarcasm, I just mean there is no "I have tried them all," it's like saying "I can play all the drum beats." There is no finite number, every distillery has different expressions, they're launching more all the time, new distilleries open all the time, different breeds of oak (quercus alba (US), quercus robur (most of Europe), etc etc) different former inhabitant of said oak (wine, bourbon etc etc), different peat treatment of malt (generally about 0-50ppm or so in scotch although Octomore takes it to another level and varies each year with about 310 being the top I believe), etc etc etc

So I stand by my "You haven't tried the right one yet," - spirit has personality and sometimes it even takes the right situation to get on with a personality, like people. My ex used to swear she hated smokey whisky but we got the ferry to Islay (the famously smokey whisky island) and at the prow of the boat in the lashing wind and rain she smelled mine and suddenly understood and made friends with the spirit in a way she'd never thought she would.

However, I appreciate if your dry the time to find the right one has gone, and sure maybe you do prefer bourbons on the whole, although I've converted many a bourbon drinker with a virgin oak scotch (as being one of the key factors in bourbon that you can't reuse barrels so most other spirits are in reused bourbon barrels, but occasionally/expensively you get brand new unused 'virgin' oak used).




And a more generally, my latest whisky purchase - never had a Manuka Wood Smoked malt before, incredible, such a sweet smoke but more floral and less sticky and lingering in the pallet than say cherry wood smoke which I don't think works in a whisky particularly well at all.thomson.png

I feel like I might just be a whisky geek.... :rolleyes:
 

Cmdr. Ross

Silver Member
Not really about respect or agreeing or disagreeing. I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm telling you a fact. It's like listening to techno and trying to argue the drums are being played on an acoustic kit.

Q - Does JD Single Barrel taste identical year in year out? A - Yes. Explanation - because it did not come from one barrel. Fact.

So as I said, Jack Daniels Single Barrel, is a perfect example of "Single Barrel" being a meaningless statement.
What's in the bottle did not get aged in a single barrel. It could just as well be "JD premium" or "JD blue label" or "JD fancy bottle". The name is just a marketing name, not an indicator of its implication, that's all I was saying about it. I like it more than regular JD, sure, however, I find its branding dishonest and I don't approve of such dishonesty from producers of what I drink.

I feel like I might just be a whisky geek.... :rolleyes:
Well said and thank you for the knowledge.
Today I learned I've not only been believing the hype of marketing, but I've been lied to for many years.
I have a whole new perspective about products now.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Therefore saying "single barrel" is not a literal statement, and is made-up marketing statement because the US doesn't have legal requirements for using it. You could not call a scotch single barrel, without it literally coming from one barrel. JD, of any variety, is therefore a blend, 'single barrel' is of fewer barrels than the other expressions, for sure, but it is not a "single barrel", if you cannot taste (not you per se, but if one cannot taste) the difference between the same whisky/whiskey over several years (hell, regular US barrel (ASB) is about 200L, if theres no flavour difference in more than that volume, then it did not come from one barrel and is therefore blended or "married" as the Scotch would put it, if from one distillery.
Jack Daniel's disagrees with you. One barrel, one use, regardless.


Here is the important part if you dont want to read the whole thing:

"All this precision and hands-on effort for a barrel we use once. After our barrels are finished imparting their flavor to our whiskey, they’re reused by hot sauce makers, beer brewers, and Scotch whisky distillers."

I'm not arguing with you, I have no idea. I was curious about the barrels though after you compared them to a tea bag, so I went looking. I can buy used JD barrels at Lowes as planters, and they always seemed pretty solid to me. Anyhow, JD claims that each barrel is only used once. In my mind, that means you fill it once, empty it once, and then dispose of the barrel. No mixing and matching of flavors anywhere.

I did read about a refining process that gets skipped with the Single Barrel. The No. 7 goes from barrel to some refining process that makes all the liquor the same. The Single Barrel goes from barrel to bottle, so its proof and flavor is never consistent. And of course I cant find that article now.

They do put the bottling date, storage location, and barrel # on each bottle of Single Barrel.

JD also makes their own barrels. Apparently this is quite uncommon for alcohol manufacturers that use barrels. One would think making barrels would be more cost effective than buying them.

This is all just what I read. JD has a pretty large reputation to uphold. I cant imagine they would lie about how many barrels the whisky comes out of. Regardless, it was an interesting rabbit hole to dig through.

It's like listening to techno and trying to argue the drums are being played on an acoustic kit.
Klangphonics anyone?

 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Not really about respect or agreeing or disagreeing. I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm telling you a fact. It's like listening to techno and trying to argue the drums are being played on an acoustic kit.

Q - Does JD Single Barrel taste identical year in year out? A - Yes. Explanation - because it did not come from one barrel. Fact.

Therefore saying "single barrel" is not a literal statement, and is made-up marketing statement because the US doesn't have legal requirements for using it. You could not call a scotch single barrel, without it literally coming from one barrel. JD, of any variety, is therefore a blend, 'single barrel' is of fewer barrels than the other expressions, for sure, but it is not a "single barrel", if you cannot taste (not you per se, but if one cannot taste) the difference between the same whisky/whiskey over several years (hell, regular US barrel (ASB) is about 200L, if theres no flavour difference in more than that volume, then it did not come from one barrel and is therefore blended or "married" as the Scotch would put it, if from one distillery.

If it came from one barrel then that barrel will wear out, like a tea bag, and a new one must be used for the next batch of however many bottles. Every barrel is unique, and you cannot have an identical flavour year in year out from a single barrel.

This doesn't even start to take into account vintage of grains, with each year and each harvest having its own nuances of the crops, or chemical variations in the water over time from various factors like rainfall or human influence.

So as I said, Jack Daniels Single Barrel, is a perfect example of "Single Barrel" being a meaningless statement.
What's in the bottle did not get aged in a single barrel. It could just as well be "JD premium" or "JD blue label" or "JD fancy bottle". The name is just a marketing name, not an indicator of its implication, that's all I was saying about it. I like it more than regular JD, sure, however, I find its branding dishonest and I don't approve of such dishonesty from producers of what I drink.


Sorry, my former comment was pure sarcasm, I just mean there is no "I have tried them all," it's like saying "I can play all the drum beats." There is no finite number, every distillery has different expressions, they're launching more all the time, new distilleries open all the time, different breeds of oak (quercus alba (US), quercus robur (most of Europe), etc etc) different former inhabitant of said oak (wine, bourbon etc etc), different peat treatment of malt (generally about 0-50ppm or so in scotch although Octomore takes it to another level and varies each year with about 310 being the top I believe), etc etc etc

So I stand by my "You haven't tried the right one yet," - spirit has personality and sometimes it even takes the right situation to get on with a personality, like people. My ex used to swear she hated smokey whisky but we got the ferry to Islay (the famously smokey whisky island) and at the prow of the boat in the lashing wind and rain she smelled mine and suddenly understood and made friends with the spirit in a way she'd never thought she would.

However, I appreciate if your dry the time to find the right one has gone, and sure maybe you do prefer bourbons on the whole, although I've converted many a bourbon drinker with a virgin oak scotch (as being one of the key factors in bourbon that you can't reuse barrels so most other spirits are in reused bourbon barrels, but occasionally/expensively you get brand new unused 'virgin' oak used).




And a more generally, my latest whisky purchase - never had a Manuka Wood Smoked malt before, incredible, such a sweet smoke but more floral and less sticky and lingering in the pallet than say cherry wood smoke which I don't think works in a whisky particularly well at all.View attachment 109132

I feel like I might just be a whisky geek.... :rolleyes:
Holy crap you know your whiskey! Well done!
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
"All this precision and hands-on effort for a barrel we use once. After our barrels are finished imparting their flavor to our whiskey, they’re reused by hot sauce makers, beer brewers, and Scotch whisky distillers."
That's not disagreeing.....Each barrel is used once, yes. The whisky you have in the bottle did not come from that barrel directly - there'll be e.g. 100 barrels, each used once, but the content of those barrels is mixed to regulate standards and flavour, so what you have in the bottlle does not come directly from a single barrel.

Each time they bottle, in the case of JD "Single Barrel" say 100 barrels (I don't know how many, that's speculation) are mixed together, in the case of regular JD it's more like 100,000, which is how it tastes identical each time, because despite each barrel having unique properties, the range of those properties is still limited to what chemicals are in quercus alba (US white oak), the surface area of barrel size to spirit, the position in the warehouse etc etc.

The one use thing applies to most US whiskey, and Canadian (all bourbon by law, although there's increasing non-bourbon whiskey being made in North America) The point is each barrel is unique, as they say, but the whiskey you drink is not unique, because it's been blended across a pool of almost identical whiskies each from a barrel that is used once....100 unique barrels = 100 barrels worth of whiskey that when mixed loses all unique edges from the individual barrels. Hope that makes sense?

My tea-bag reusing comment applies to scotch and various other countries, you got notes particularly on single barrel scotch saying "first refill," "second refill" etc, and generally the higher that number the more years you need to get the level of oakiness, but I was just trying to cover how you can't get the same flavour again and again by using the same barrel.

And hells yes on the Klangphonics....(y)
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
They do put the bottling date, storage location, and barrel # on each bottle of Single Barrel.
Wow okay, I am very embarrassed, this is new - I used to sell this years ago but havent for ages, and it was defo 100% NOT actually single barrel then, but what I'm reading now looks like thats changed, and in fact each batch IS different. Before the line they used was "single barrel select is carefully selected to taste like Jack Daniel's first ever barrel" or something to that effect.

For all my long rants, I stand corrected. I stand by the bare facts of what I'm saying, except apparently no longer applicable to JD Single Barrel, I will have to try it again, it really has been a while.

JD also makes their own barrels. Apparently this is quite uncommon for alcohol manufacturers that use barrels. One would think making barrels would be more cost effective than buying them.
And this, it's called being a cooper, and there are like 3 left in the UK, probably proportionately similar numbers in US, very few distillers actually have their own...but yeah JD is one...
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
That's not disagreeing.....Each barrel is used once, yes. The whisky you have in the bottle did not come from that barrel directly - there'll be e.g. 100 barrels, each used once, but the content of those barrels is mixed to regulate standards and flavour, so what you have in the bottlle does not come directly from a single barrel.
Oh I see what you are saying. I misinterpreted it as each barrel was used for multiple batches, not each batch goes through multiple barrels.

Wow okay, I am very embarrassed, this is new - I used to sell this years ago but havent for ages, and it was defo 100% NOT actually single barrel then, but what I'm reading now looks like thats changed, and in fact each batch IS different. Before the line they used was "single barrel select is carefully selected to taste like Jack Daniel's first ever barrel" or something to that effect.
Sorry, that was not my intention. I was really just interested in how many times the barrel was used. I dont drink anymore, and when I did I was a vodka guy. Whisky tastes like gasoline to me, as does tequila.

I wonder what a drum made from a used JD barrel would sound like? Smokey? Sour? Tennessee?
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
Oh I see what you are saying. I misinterpreted it as each barrel was used for multiple batches, not each batch goes through multiple barrels.


Sorry, that was not my intention. I was really just interested in how many times the barrel was used. I dont drink anymore, and when I did I was a vodka guy. Whisky tastes like gasoline to me, as does tequila.

I wonder what a drum made from a used JD barrel would sound like? Smokey? Sour? Tennessee?
Nah, don't apologize, I stand corrected (and feel like I shouldn't be in this position cos I do know my whiskies generally!) I can do some vodka, big fan of Siberian Mamont, or the Polish Soplica fruit stuff, although that was a breakfast in Krakow for me and some friends and I don't really remember much more of the day....!

Yeah I wonder what the relation, if any, between making barrels and drums is
 

Steve30907

Well-known member
Nah, don't apologize, I stand corrected (and feel like I shouldn't be in this position cos I do know my whiskies generally!) I can do some vodka, big fan of Siberian Mamont, or the Polish Soplica fruit stuff, although that was a breakfast in Krakow for me and some friends and I don't really remember much more of the day....!

Yeah I wonder what the relation, if any, between making barrels and drums is
I've seen congas made from rum casks.
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
I've seen congas made from rum casks.
Incidentally 99% most likely ex-bourbon. Casks are pretty much always oak because it's semi porous meaning it expands and becomes water tight when the pours fill with liquid, other woods don't work like that so much, but as above, bourbon is one use only and most other regions either have very little or no oak, so the barrel market of tequila, rum, scotch, beer etc etc is flooded with ex-bourbon barrels.
 
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