What's the obsession with cost vs value vs sound ?

[Bo Eder]

I find that a lot of those recommendations come from a biased perspective. "Grestsch is the finest drumset ever made" "The Ludwig Black Beauty is the best snare" It is what works for what you are doing and to me is not brand dependent but people feel the need to justify their purchases.
Same with trucks "Ford is better than Dodge or Chevy" It is not, it is what you prefer.
I tend to prefer someone that gives you a list of pros and cons as the opinion tends to feel less biased that way.
I for example am Biased against other e-kits having a Roland, I have played all other brands but my preference is now Roland, that may change in the future. But I do give pro's and cons too. Nothing is perfect...

That’s what I said-it comes down to fans yelling at each other and the person asking just gets more confused.

In the end everybody has to use their judgment and eventually get something. Pre-internet it was easier because you didn’t hear all the fan noise. You just bought what you liked and discovered if it worked for you. Post-internet you do the same thing with a lot of opinions you gave to sift through or disregard altogether. But the process is basically the same - you still have to decide.

 

[jda]

I find that a lot of those recommendations come from a biased perspective. "Grestsch is the finest drumset ever made" "The Ludwig Black Beauty is the best snare" It is what works for what you are doing and to me is not brand dependent but people feel the need to justify their purchases.
Same with trucks "Ford is better than Dodge or Chevy" It is not, it is what you prefer.

So depends on what Flavor you want to give to the music you're involved. I'd imagine if you're involved is some niche of heavy metal you'd lean toward brands used then and there.

Likewise if in a Motown or 60searly70s pop song band you'd want the Ludwig/Sling/Gretsch/Rogers that were predominant there.

It seems (like a ship) without Bearings is where the discussion never reaches finality

That's how Brands are picked (chosen) to use.
Once you know the Mission you're entering You can tailor to suit

it is what you prefer.

It's not even that; it's matching to the mission.
You may have Three different personalities and Three different sets for Three different bands

But you are weaving the gear into the group's persona
right?

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

“Horse with a party hat”!

Priceless…

yeah...that actually is pretty good...gonna use tha a lot

In 1993 I spent $2810 for new stained, lacquered Premier Signias.
Two years later I finally had the feeling of spending more than needed to have a good enough experience of enjoyment.

Two years it took. During that time they were set up in my living room and I'd just stare at how sexy there are.

This Summer on a huge stage I took a kick and 6 toms. A 50 year musician said, 'Someone got some new drums. Those are beautiful.'
1993, brother. They are beautiful. Thank you.

same, but for me it was a Pearl Masters Custom Maple 6 piece. Royal blue stain over the wood. My first legit drum kit. Saved for 10 years to get it. And I still get the same type of compliments. Other than some scuffs on the BD rim where the pedal goes, it is pretty clean

 

[rungeflash]

Now this comment is not for beginners…..more serious amateur or pro….but prepare yourself to obtain more than one kit. 2 minimum. And I would pick 2 kits with drastically (180 degree) design/material philosophy differences. Swapping hoops/heads can only do so much….you need considerable differences in bearing edge/wood type/shell thickness to cover all the bases most will want to do

 

[2 hit wonder]

same, but for me it was a Pearl Masters Custom Maple 6 piece. Royal blue stain over the wood. My first legit drum kit. Saved for 10 years to get it. And I still get the same type of compliments. Other than some scuffs on the BD rim where the pedal goes, it is pretty clean

Choosing a color was the hardest part.
I borrowed from a credit union. When I was depositing the check the clerk asked if I was buying a car.

 

[doggyd69b]

So depends on what Flavor you want to give to the music you're involved. I'd imagine if you're involved is some niche of heavy metal you'd lean toward brands used then and there.

Likewise if in a Motown or 60searly70s pop song band you'd want the Ludwig/Sling/Gretsch/Rogers that were predominant there.

It seems (like a ship) without Bearings is where the discussion never reaches finality

That's how Brands are picked (chosen) to use.
Once you know the Mission you're entering You can tailor to suit

It's not even that; it's matching to the mission.
You may have Three different personalities and Three different sets for Three different bands

But you are weaving the gear into the group's persona
right?

So you basically just agreed with me...without agreeing with me.

 

[doggyd69b]

That’s what I said-it comes down to fans yelling at each other and the person asking just gets more confused.

In the end everybody has to use their judgment and eventually get something. Pre-internet it was easier because you didn’t hear all the fan noise. You just bought what you liked and discovered if it worked for you. Post-internet you do the same thing with a lot of opinions you gave to sift through or disregard altogether. But the process is basically the same - you still have to decide.

In that era the influencers were someone you bought and album from and saw live. You based your purchases on that mostly. I doubt a lot of people went of the drum magazines and bought a kit from just an add. It was (for me again) something about using what someone I admired used. it is not now. I use what works for what I am trying to do at the time. For others it is about brand recognition first and sound second. but yes we all can even agree that a certain snare is the undisputed best but it is ultimately the individual who is going to have to make the decision to agree with us or not. (or what BO just said).

 

[jda]

In 1993 I spent $2810 for new stained, lacquered Premier Signias.

do you still have that set all intact?

 

[doggyd69b]

Choosing a color was the hardest part.
I borrowed from a credit union. When I was depositing the check the clerk asked if I was buying a car.

What kind of expensive kit were you getting??

 

[jda]

So you basically just agreed with me...without agreeing with me.

I just don't understand why/picking/ drums is hard/ and seems "there's no bearings" in the 'Chooser (is trouble)
Without bearings "you're adrift at sea!

 

[jda]

What kind of expensive kit were you getting??

he said it (above) #48 post #32

 

[doggyd69b]

I just don't understand why/picking/ drums is hard/ and seems "there's no bearings" in the 'Chooser.
Without bearings "you're adrift at sea!

Eventually you will runout of ocean too (unless you are going in circles).
I also don't understand why it's so hard to choose. for me is:
1 find what I can afford (more what I feel comfortable spending) just because I could spend $10k doesn't mean I should.
2 find what I like from that reasonable price range
3 narrow it down to two or 3 candidates
4 do a little more research on pros and cons
5 buy best of the 3 based on my research.

I have never regretted buying anything using that method. (Motorcycles and trucks are examples of that).

With drums is mostly about getting a few more options with more expensive kits, sound wise I can make a cheap kit sound expensive so that is not a problem. A lot of people can make an expensive kit sound cheap...

With drum hardware such as pedals, there is a HUGE difference between cheap and top of the line.... HUUUUGE.
for that is worth it to spend more because you do get a significant upgrade from cheap pedals. ( I am not talking cheap $500 DW [which is not really that cheap], I'm talking pedals from $200 to $300 vs pedals for $800 to $ 1500) yes very big jump in price but you do see it and feel it.

 

[Chris Whitten]

Pre-internet it was easier because you didn’t hear all the fan noise. You just bought what you liked and discovered if it worked for you.

That's a time consuming and expensive way to go.
I have always looked at the people I want to emulate and made a note of what they are using.
I bought a Yamaha Recording Custom because Jerry Marotta sounded absolutely amazing playing his.
I walked past a drum shop in London every day. They had a beat up (bare metal looking) Ludwig snare in the window. It intrigued me, but it was £400 (a lot for me at the time) and I knew nothing about it. Then I got hired to play drums alongside Jerry Marotta on a record. So I decided to buy the Ludwig snare. It wasn't there and they said they sold it the day before (after months of it sitting in the window).
I get to the session and Marotta has bought the snare. It sounds absolutely killer. It's a 20's NOB Ludwig.
I have always checked out what other players I like are using, either in person or in magazines, and now you can often ask them on the internet.

 

[2 hit wonder]

do you still have that set all intact?

Yes.
The original order was 2 kicks, 2 snares and 4 toms, Premier hardware and DW pedals. Kicks were $545 each. 18" depth. I bought 2 snares in diff depths because of not knowing which I'd prefer later when I was experienced. This is my lifetime kit choice when I was a 3 year player.

Later I ordered a new 14" tom ($280 or $330?) and much later got a used 8" tom after they were discontinued.

It's really 2 sets. Three kicks, 2 snares, 6 toms. The extra kick was an accident I didn't pay for. The finish cracked at the seam and Suncoast sent a replacement but never picked up the cracked one. One kick has been in the original box for decades.

 

[AudioWonderland]

I just don't understand why/picking/ drums is hard/ and seems "there's no bearings" in the 'Chooser (is trouble)
Without bearings "you're adrift at sea!

I think you are missing the point. Choosing is not difficult. The research that goes into that decision does takes time. If I choose dw I still have decide on sizes, shell material, shell type bering edges etc.

If we had to have a kit today most of us could walk into a shop and find something "good enough" in inventory which is basically what you are saying you do. Most of us don't need a kit that moment and put a little more thought into a purchase we need to live with because we can and understand it's a prudent thing to do. If you can just throw money around without a 2nd thought, good for you. Most of don't have that luxury. It's a fair question to ask why I should spend 8k on DW instead of 1.5k on a PDP.

 

[jda]

It's a fair question to ask why I should spend 8k on DW instead of 1.5k on a PDP.

If you include Used hi end sets those 2 aren't the sole choice
$8K you could buy 6 sets or more
$1.5K you can get usa classic vintage 6070 Lud Sling etc including maybe a brass snare..

If you don't look beyond your marketing research may be limited

 

[AudioWonderland]

If you include Used hi end sets those 2 aren't the sole choice
$8K you could buy 6 sets or more
$1.5K you can get usa classic vintage 6070 Lud Sling etc including maybe a brass snare..

If you don't look beyond your marketing research may be limited

You are quite adept at missing point.. that was just an example..

 

[2 hit wonder]

If you include Used hi end sets those 2 aren't the sole choice
$8K you could buy 6 sets or more
$1.5K you can get usa classic vintage 6070 Lud Sling etc including maybe a brass snare..

If you don't look beyond your marketing research may be limited

Word. I get some good deals on gear simply because I'm diligent. I look and look and eventually find.

 

[jda]

I bought my last new set in 2010 before the prices went :squirrel nuts

I've since bought another used set, another Used snare, a small old K or two, used (doh) and a New 20" cymbal.
Which was the least satisfying of these ? the new item

 

[BruceW]

Choosing a color was the hardest part.
I borrowed from a credit union. When I was depositing the check the clerk asked if I was buying a car.

I took out a personal loan for $1000 to buy my first "real" kit in 1981. Tama ImperialStars. Still playing them today.