What on earth is wrong with society!

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
... I don't know about down under, but in the states college sports is HUGE business
We don't have the same college sports thing - not big enough - but in Oz it's all about sport. My Mum was an author and she used to go nuts about it ... kept on threatening to move to Ireland where she said people appreciated their writers.


It seems to me that the people that we have reviewing music are all too often not musicians, whereas sports retains ex-athletes at least as advisors. Instead of discussing drop D tunings, harmonies, 12 Bar Blues, syncopations, shuffles, riffs, etc, our music mag reviewers are too busy yacking on and on about Mick's lips, Iggie's (lack of) attire, or how many masks Peter Gabriel can wear in one show.
TRUE! I DON'T NORMALLY SHOUT ONLINE BUT THIS IS WORTH SHOUTING ABOUT!

It's so rare that they talk about the process of music and the focus on image and private lives and how many shows they've sold out etc is simply soulless. The best you get is a forensic analysis of lyrics - again no doubt because the reviewer knows little of music. They never seem to understand why musicians take solos and often take the superficial view that it's just "self indulgence", as though no listeners could possibly enjoy a solo.

It sure doesn't help ... people relate what they can understand and there's not a lot of light being shone on what goes on.

Jazz reviewers tend to be much better, though plenty of jazzers will beg to differ (and probably point out Stanley Crouch as a case in point).

I guess we should be grateful that there's any reviews at all when you can so readily find out the minutae of how some bloke throws a ball.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I didn't mean it that way. Your band is great. I'd be honored to sit in with you guys if I ever got to your part of the realm. I could play ukulele ;)
Very nice of you to say so but our demos are like airbrushed photos with our tummies pulled in. I have plenty of rehearsal "performances" (to use the word loosely) that I could not post online because it would be so embarrassing.

If you ever sat in with us you ought to be on the drums and I'll play djembe, maracas or rainstick or sumpin :)

Just reminded me of something, with the whole reality show thing with everyone wanting to be involved, maybe more hosted jam sessions would help?
 
D

DSCRAPRE

Guest
That's another issue, Larry. We can't strike. The minute we stop, the un-hirable hack musicians will fill that void and take the gigs. It'll suck for a while, but then people will just get used to it.

So what you're saying is that if you guys stop playing, then maybe somebody somewhere will want to play with me? ALRIGHT! :D
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Very nice of you to say so but our demos are like airbrushed photos with our tummies pulled in. I have plenty of rehearsal "performances" (to use the word loosely) that I could not post online because it would be so embarrassing.

If you ever sat in with us you ought to be on the drums and I'll play djembe, maracas or rainstick or sumpin :)

Just reminded me of something, with the whole reality show thing with everyone wanting to be involved, maybe more hosted jam sessions would help?
It can't be that bad. You guys have a website and everything. Anyone who is willing to advertise must be able to pull off what they're advertising, eh? Or have you guys made it a business to get business but not take the gigs? That's what I would LOVE - just send me a check and I don't have to play!
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
At first we figured we'd actually do regular gigs, based on the chance that we would improve. Alas, not everyone has improved and we're too nice / loyal / cowardly / apathetic to do anything about it.

So the website is there because it's not been taken down :)
 

BassDriver

Silver Member
I see no reason why people can't just have sports teams, music groups and any other kinds of endeavors, without government help.

I mean, does anyone need a grant to do any of this stuff?
Better. It should not be the responsibility of government to throw money around to sporting groups or arts groups.

Sport gets enough money put into it from private company sponsorship or community-based funding as it is.

I am afraid that fundamentally the issue can be boiled down to economics and culture.

Culturally (especially in sport-loving countries like Australia and the US) "The Arts" are not very popular while sport gets a lot of attention.

Economically...well sport pays - this could be linked to culture from the whole supply-and-demand side of things.

A side note:

What is also great observation about what is wrong with society is that the US and Australia are countries mad about sports but have some of the highest rates of obesity and overweight people in the world.

Maybe it shows something about how much sport is watched rather than participated in by the general community in this country.
 

makinao

Silver Member
It seems to me that the people that we have reviewing music are all too often not musicians, whereas sports retains ex-athletes at least as advisors. Instead of discussing drop D tunings, harmonies, 12 Bar Blues, syncopations, shuffles, riffs, etc, our music mag reviewers are too busy yacking on and on about Mick's lips, Iggie's (lack of) attire, or how many masks Peter Gabriel can wear in one show. I don't think any music publications that I know of have ever tried to hire people who were technically capable to even discuss musical issues - only observations that any non-musician would have about an artist, with the exception of technical mags like Drum, or Guitar magazines.
So true. On the other hand, I know many musicians who avoid writing reviews because either 1) they'd rather spend their time making music, 2) they don't have the patience to articulate music theory in a way that non-musicians can easily understand, and 3) they have to write about their peers, which is not always easy if the review is critical.

Right now, I'm handling a college course in music theory for non-music majors. My students are majors in Art Studies, Film/Broadcast production, and Literature, and started off with zero knowledge of music theory. After walking them through basic reading and writing rhythm, melody, and functional harmony, my final presentation/term paper is for them to write a review of two popular songs (one they like and the other they don't) which includes simple formal analysis. I told them of the sad state of popular music reviews, and challenged them to do better. I'm looking forward to hearing their presentations starting next week.
 
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aydee

Platinum Member
...

The deeper point to Polly's thread is something to really think about, IMO.

Societies which have their culture and art all around them, and as a part of their daily lives seem to me to be happier and more civilized people. Im certainly envious of them.

Stuffing it all away in museums and conservatories, or lofts for that matter, or even charging a pretty penny and making it completely unaffordable for 'Joe the Plumber' means limited access to what is rightfully ours and should be freely available -- Like a pick up basketball game.

And then of course we are all fed drivel by the marketing mavens of Big Business Inc who then re-arrange culture that is designed for profit, and not neccesarily for the enrichment of our collective soul or community building. I should know. I am one.

...
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Societies which have their culture and art all around them, and as a part of their daily lives seem to me to be happier and more civilized people. Im certainly envious of them.
What society is that? Utopia or Nirvana? :)

What kills me is it's even hard to bring it to the streets ... busking licence of $40 for each local government area. Sydney has over 40 LGAs ... this is not encouraging culture.

Thank Deity for YouTube ... unless that new law puts the kibosh on that too.


... And then of course we are all fed drivel by the marketing mavens of Big Business Inc who then re-arrange culture that is designed for profit, and not neccesarily for the enrichment of our collective soul or community building. I should know. I am one.
Bad Abe! Naughty Abe! Go to your corner!

It's crazy. How could we have been so conditioned by the Aural Amusement arm of Big Business Inc that something like Rebecca Black's Friday could be successful? No offence to Rebecca but it's almost entirely anti-music.

Are people losing their critical faculties and failing to see slapdash vacuous crap foisted on them for what it is? Beer and circuses.
 

BassDriver

Silver Member
What kills me is it's even hard to bring it to the streets ... busking licence of $40 for each local government area. Sydney has over 40 LGAs ... this is not encouraging
Good that I live in Melbourne - where there still is an animated live music scene.

After all, it is the cultural capital of Australia.

Beer and circuses.
You can save your soul by not being part of the beer and circuses.
There is not much that musicians can do stop this over-commercialisation of music apart from just resisting by continuing their dedication to their art.

We don't have the same college sports thing - not big enough - but in Oz it's all about sport. My Mum was an author and she used to go nuts about it ... kept on threatening to move to Ireland where she said people appreciated their writers.
I dare you to do something. Ask a few Aussies how many Australian poets they can list off the top of their heads.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Good that I live in Melbourne - where there still is an animated live music scene. After all, it is the cultural capital of Australia.
Glad it's still happening there. How much effect have the pokes had on the bar scene? When I was in Melb around 2002 it was still thriving.


I dare you to do something. Ask a few Aussies how many Australian poets they can list off the top of their heads.
Haha, but that's just poetry, not proper art :) Banjo Patterson, Kenneth Slessor and Judith Wright come to mind.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
So what if you got your wish Pol...music was the big attraction to society and sports would be on the decline. I wonder what kind of world that would be....Better? Worse?
 

Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
So what if you got your wish Pol...music was the big attraction to society and sports would be on the decline. I wonder what kind of world that would be....Better? Worse?
Depends on whether or not we're willing to risk seeing a "wardrobe malfunction" of a pro ball player during intermission ;)
 

BassDriver

Silver Member
Glad it's still happening there. How much effect have the pokes had on the bar scene? When I was in Melb around 2002 it was still thriving.
Plenty of pokies in melbourne. Many bars and large restaurants have them.

...and live music is still more popular than going to the footy when I checked last year in the newspapers.

It seems that in Melbourne, the venues that have been popular live music for a while are still running.

Like the East Brunswick Club and the Esplanade Hotel (which is still going after 100 years).

One of the problems with Sydney was venues were closing down.

I am still skeptical...how bad were pokies for the Syndey live music scene, there are plenty of pokies in Melbourne and live music is healthy here. What about the (no offence) more strongly entrenched, shallow and materialistic culture of Sydney:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/01/26/1169788693816.html

...surely such values cannot be healthy for the state of art.

BTW Polly, you are not the only one who expresses their concern on the internet about live music in Australia:
http://www.slamrally.org/

...and here is a song that basically expresses your discontent with the pokies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw
 

standupBela

Junior Member
Pollyanna said:
How long has this been going on? People crowded the arenas to see gladiators kill and main each other and Christians being et by lions. I'm not a historian but I get the impression that the grand operas were not as massive or frequent.
reply is a bit late, but just wanting to throw in my 2 cents. AS far as I know drama was pretty big at the time. Just have a look at the pic in this article. The place is massive. It's Greek, but yeah, the picture was more impressive than the roman theatre ;) Anyway. Apart from that I'm totally agreeing here. There is a lot of music and other arts everywhere still, but sports is pushed and supported a lot more. I just have to think back to my school days. Our community centre got more and more financial cuts and had to take higher member's fees just to stay afloat, whereas the sports centre had its own bus and what not.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
One of the problems with Sydney was venues were closing down.

I am still skeptical...how bad were pokies for the Syndey live music scene, there are plenty of pokies in Melbourne and live music is healthy here. What about the (no offence) more strongly entrenched, shallow and materialistic culture of Sydney:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/01/26/1169788693816.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw
That's a very good point. Always good to have some perspective from the outside. I've been here for so long that I just figured the whole world is mostly inhabited by people I can't relate to.

Most people I meet who aren't involve in the arts seem to have little interest in the arts, other than movies and background music.
 
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