what is your favorite song of Five Beats
- Thread starter Mojojojo
- Start date
Couldn't argue against that one. One of the most musical solos ever, too!
That whole album was such an eye opener for me. Just mind blowing.
Blind Faith. "Do what you like" What a band! I feel privileged to have seen them..... <iframe width="560" height="315" src="
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I love seeing all you folks that can handle that stuff... me, I'm just giggly that I managed to finally be able to do the 5/4 (or 1/1) sections in Barracuda. Just that was a stretch, for me.
(Of course, I'm also singing it at the same time
)
I went to a Mike Mangini clinic earlier this year, and he's trying to teach us about 19......... completely over my head.
(Of course, I'm also singing it at the same time
)I went to a Mike Mangini clinic earlier this year, and he's trying to teach us about 19......... completely over my head.
Luv4drums
Active Member
I have never played odd times in a band. oh wait, Them Bones by Alice in Chainsis in 7/8, played that. But, its pretty much over my head too. I was the guy that dropped my hihat clutch then barely pressed my foot and locked it into a mostly semi closed permanent position, so my left foot could do an occaisonal 2nd bass drum stroke. Had two bass drums but never acheived a straight RLRLRLRL pattern 8ths or 16ths. But there was a book I have somewhere packede up that to the best of my memory was yellow with large black font on the cover something like "Odd Time Signatures and Patterns For Drumset" or something like that, I really wish I remembered because it is a good place for you to get more familiar with playing those types of time sigs. I think it is in my storage in a box. But I will look for it again. It starts with 5/8, 7/8, and continues with some funky rhythms. Might have been "funky rhythms and patterns in odd time signatures" something like that.I love seeing all you folks that can handle that stuff... me, I'm just giggly that I managed to finally be able to do the 5/4 (or 1/1) sections in Barracuda. Just that was a stretch, for me.
(Of course, I'm also singing it at the same time
I went to a Mike Mangini clinic earlier this year, and he's trying to teach us about 19......... completely over my head.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
That Don Ellis track is kller. Especially a sucker for the baritone sax and violin.
Something completely different - classic rock/prog - I always enjoyed this one.
Something completely different - classic rock/prog - I always enjoyed this one.
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piston broke
Junior Member
Easter by Marillion - stick with it to the end or skip to 3.58 or so. Here's a nice live version.
Yamaha Rider
Platinum Member
Gorgeous music. Anyone unconvinced they like classical should hear this album!
Yamaha Rider
Platinum Member
Don't tell anyone here - but the concept of having 5 quarter notes in a bar - when a bar can only have 4 quarter notes (or it's not a bar) looks like it's going to elude me forever...
I can play some of those rythms - but understand the time signature concept? No way.
dcrigger
PRO DRUMMER
Maybe - but I actually doubt it. Ever play... ever hear a waltz... oom - pa - pa oom - pa - pa??? 3 beats to a bar. How about a polka or a march? Stars and Stripes Forever? Beer Barrel Polka? 2 beats to a bar.
We really are exposed to a lot of music not in 4/4 - which, of course, why we bother stating a number in the time signature. Because it isn't always a four. Though granted, yes, it certainly is a lot.
I would venture that the playing of odd meters is more of a problem for folks than understanding them. In a nutshell, all time signatures with top numbers other than 2 or 3 - can be thought of a some combination of 2's and 3's. Heck 4/4 is made of two groups of 2 (2+2). Mission Impossible and Take Five are in 5/4 - but both are just as easily thought of as a bar of 3 followed by a bar of 2.
And no matter how complex the time signature - that's it. That's all there is to understanding them.... they can all be broken into smaller "bars" of 2's and 3's.
But playing them, of course, like all playing is another matter. Understanding is just one step towards execution, fluidity, expression.
All my round about way of saying that being able to play some of them suggests that you might inherently understand them more than you imagine.
Getting comfortable playing in odd meters demands the same kind of immersion as any other genre, style to technique. For most, the interest in doing that isn't really there. Dipping a toe into the water here and there seems to be the more common approach. Which honestly makes a lot of sense. Not the path I took, but I didn't get into it because it made sense. It's just something that spoke to me really early on - in a really strong way.
I think that the most debilitating ideas behind notation/time signatures is that EVERYTHING can be noted in infinitely diverse ways...as much as everyone likes to spout 'there is only one way to note this phrase', they are wrong.
There is usually one standardized way to represent a musical passage, but never one way to represent a musical passage in standard notation.
Once you have that idea...that notation is an abstraction and not a unique representation of a musical idea...you can then look at the ways to represent a phrase.
Expecting notation to be a 'one for one' with no alternative notation representations derails many.
With that said, a 'bar' can contain as many counts as you wish...we tend to select the number of beats(the number at the top of the time signature) that 'complete' a musical phrase though this is not demanded by standard notation...just by its convention...and the bottom number in the signature says what note gets one beat.
Things become real fun when you start using artificial grouping concepts to resolve issues where the number of beats to a notation phrase becomes 'more diverse'...like jumping to a spreading of 3 notes where 2 would usually exist(such as with half note triplets..which have several ways to be noted)...but this can extend to relationships of any form...such as treating 5 'beats' as though they filled 7 'beats' (5:7 read as '5 to 7') as noted in the time sig.
In the end, I am not so sure that understanding this bit of theory is all that helpful in most situations outside of cold reading responsibilities..though it does give you mental exercise and a new 'toy' to play with.
i defer to the folks that went to the effort of attaining a deeper music theory education than i...as long as they do not violate the basics of logic! : )
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
....sort of like the English language....
there are rules. And then there are exceptions to the rules
there are foundational situations. And then there are variations on those situations
the key, at least for me, was making sure that I knew the foundations so I could prepare for the variations. I don't beleive that time signatures are as ambiguous as they are made out to be if the learning process is in the right "order"
I was lucky(?) that my dad taught me time signatures, and how they worked, right out of the gate when I was 4 years old. I don't ever remember a time in my musical life where I couldn't figure stuff out by counting and getting the time sig in my head.
4/4 - top number is pulses per measure; bottom is the kind of note that represents those pulses. If there is 4 in the bottom, the pulses are visually represented by quarter notes.
He also taught me the subdivision rule: a rhythmic value can be broken down into 2 smaller rhythmic values. That helped me understand how to put smaller divisions in between the pulse rhyrhms, hence, 8th notes and 16th notes.
I learned this stuff before he taught me any drum beat.
then, he made me learn Take 5 by Brubeck...but we started by counting along to the song. He made me learn the rhythm of the piano part first. once I could count that, then we started on the drum part - by count - and with the hands only. After that was good, I added the bass drum, and then the hi hat. Also during that time, he had explained to me what spang-a-lang was, but again, by way of counting.
granted, this was a months long process with a lot of failure at first...BUT...having this foundation allowed me to quickly learn other songs as I got older and wiser. It allowed me to be able to count the beats of a part out loud before physically learning it, which allowed the physical to happen much quicker. I think it also gave me a sense of control that helped me get over frustration with failure at first....like I would say "I know I can count this in my head...I can envision it. I just have to keep trying to get it to the physical of my limbs"
I also remember discovering that time sigs could "cross over"...like 3/4 and 6/8 and 4/4 and 12/8, round about 6th or 7th grade, when I first started working on triplet feel stuff in school band, and triplet feel songs like SATO by Ozzy, Where Eagles Dare by Maiden or The Whisper by Queensryche.
but I digress....I feel that if you take the time to dig into what time sigs are, they can be a great help...not a hinderance to playing beats!!!
Luv4drums
Active Member
Maybe it isn't the time signature giving you trouble but note rates. A quater note triplet in 4/4 will result in 6 notes over the full measure, or it could be a 3/2, or 6/4 The quarter note triplet is 3 notes over 2 1/4 note time space.
The key is that 4/4 is the bottom number is note value 1/4. In 5/4 for the bottom number still says 4. they are still going to be 1/4 notes.
The top number is how many you play per measure 5/4 is 5 beats per measure each beat is a 1/4 note so the measure has 5 1/4 notes.
The metronome, or click set to the tempo of the piece will represent quarter notes, play 5, start next measure. a passage like in perfect strangers that ha 5/4 then 4/4 and repeats 4 times, could be 4 measures of 9/4, but is easier for drummers to count to 5 than 9. haha
7/8, 6/8 and 9/8 the bottom number is 8th notes, The top number is how many there are in the measure
Musicsucks
Member
How did we get this far with no one mentioning 15 step by Radiohead? That song is such a jam.
I briefly played with this singer way back when, who was usually solo but she did one or two shows with my band backing her up. She wrote this really beautiful slow indie ballad in five, but she didn't read music or have any musical training and didn't even realize the song was in five. We just had to get used to her counting it in in four. I wish I had a recording of that, such a great song.
I briefly played with this singer way back when, who was usually solo but she did one or two shows with my band backing her up. She wrote this really beautiful slow indie ballad in five, but she didn't read music or have any musical training and didn't even realize the song was in five. We just had to get used to her counting it in in four. I wish I had a recording of that, such a great song.