What is This Note?

toddbishop

Platinum Member
In some of the prior discussion, there is an indication of accenting the last note of the roll. Is this implied in this rudiment notation?
yes as well...this would be the "release" of the roll. I think you are talking about the 9 stroke roll I listed: rr-ll-rr-ll R...in rudimental notation, that would be written as 4 16th notes with slashes on them, and then a quarter note with an accent on it...so the drag is 1 16th note with a slash, and the release note with an accent
FWIW, in my community, both in corps and with concert snare drum, there is no accent implied on the release of a roll or drag, or on the main note of a ruff, unless it's actually written. Accenting the end was something people were specifically told not to do.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
FWIW, in my community, both in corps and with concert snare drum, there is no accent implied on the release of a roll or drag, or on the main note of a ruff, unless it's actually written. Accenting the end was something people were specifically told not to do.

same as me, but then it sort of evolves into an agogic accent after a while...but yes, true interpretation with no accent should be at the same volume level as the doubles
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
So the second version resembles the one I posted, accept the ending quarter note in yours (the 3rd R) is the first 8th note of the next measure in mine?

exactly
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member

Mighty_Joker

Silver Member
Thanks. After all the discussion of drags finishes up, maybe you could discuss flams. That is, is there an equivalent non-grace note version to flams as in the case of drags (that a number of people actually use)?

Interesting question. The non-grace note version of flams would essentially be a double stroke roll. If you think about the sticking of alternating flams: lR rL lR rL (lower case indicates grace notes), we can see the collapsed double strokes in there.

Flams don't suffer from the same ambiguity of drags though, really. They can be interpreted very closed or very open (pipe drumming plays them as buzz strokes, for example), but there isn't really an equivalent of that discussed in the drags paper.

If you're interested, have a look at some work on collapsed rolls. The Double strokes collapsing to flams is a good example of that.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Interesting question. The non-grace note version of flams would essentially be a double stroke roll. If you think about the sticking of alternating flams: lR rL lR rL (lower case indicates grace notes), we can see the collapsed double strokes in there.

Flams don't suffer from the same ambiguity of drags though, really. They can be interpreted very closed or very open (pipe drumming plays them as buzz strokes, for example), but there isn't really an equivalent of that discussed in the drags paper.

If you're interested, have a look at some work on collapsed rolls. The Double strokes collapsing to flams is a good example of that.

and back in the day in drum corps - 70's and 80's ish - the west coast guys played their flams more "open" than the east coast guys...you could always tell where a drum line was from by their flams...and length of hair :cool:

I have never thought of their being collapsed doubles in flams...

but yeah, the flam notaiton is definitely a standard...the interp is what changes...

from a purely rhythmic/subdivisional stand point, you think of the grace note as the 128th note division right before the release quarter note...but that is nit-picking
 

TMe

Senior Member
A 16th with some kind of permutation to it?

I know nothing of drum corps stuff, but FWIW:

I was taught that the slash indicates double strokes, so would indicate a drag in this case. I was also taught that drags can be written like this, as opposed to the usual notation for a drag, to indicate that the double-stroke notes should be played with clear note values, as opposed to being played like flams, where the grace notes have no clear note values. I don't know if that reflects how other people use the notation, though.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
Thanks. After all the discussion of drags finishes up, maybe you could discuss flams. That is, is there an equivalent non-grace note version to flams as in the case of drags (that a number of people actually use)?

With most of the roll/ruff/drag rudiments there's a rhythm version, a double stroke version, and a multiple bounce version. Flams only use single strokes— with the grace note unmetered— so the only other possibility is to play both notes in rhythm. I can't recall ever seeing that done-- two close together taps played in rhythm labeled as flams-- maybe somewhere in Wilcoxon.

---- Did a quick skim through my books, nobody does a "rhythm" version of a flam anywhere that I can find. Maybe in some really old sources...
 
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timmdrum

Silver Member
I think you are talking about the 9 stroke roll I listed: rr-ll-rr-ll R...in rudimental notation, that would be written as 4 16th notes with slashes on them, and then a quarter note with an accent on it...so the drag is 1 16th note with a slash, and the release note with an accent
Or, as a quarter note with two or three slashes through the note stem, a "tie" (of a sort- not really a tie but kinda, see pic), ending with another quarter note. Note (no pun intended, haha) the indicated accent; as Todd said, without this, don't play an accent.
1614971318767.png
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
With most of the roll/ruff/drag rudiments there's a rhythm version, a double stroke version, and a multiple bounce version. Flams only use single strokes— with the grace note unmetered— so the only other possibility is to play both notes in rhythm. I can't recall ever seeing that done-- two close together taps played in rhythm labeled as flams-- maybe somewhere in Wilcoxon.

---- Did a quick skim through my books, nobody does a "rhythm" version of a flam anywhere that I can find. Maybe in some really old sources...

yeah..it is already - in a way - a written rhythm...the grace note is the closest "micro" subdivision to the big note that you can have
 

beet

Well-known member
I saw an example in a Book Report description of an accent on the note that is also notated as a roll.

How does the accent affect the roll? Is only the first note of the roll accented and all other notes of the roll played as if not accented, or are other notes of the roll affected?

25168798-10FD-43B1-9DAC-DDC36E80AF2F.jpeg
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
I saw an example in a Book Report description of an accent on the note that is also notated as a roll.

How does the accent affect the roll? Is only the first note of the roll accented and all other notes of the roll played as if not accented, or are other notes of the roll affected?

View attachment 102439

both strokes would be slightly accented...I treat it more like an agogic/natural accent....the second stroke of the double is roughly the same height as the first
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
both strokes would be slightly accented...I treat it more like an agogic/natural accent....the second stroke of the double is roughly the same height as the first

When I play it slowly, I try to make the first note of that double REALLY high, like head-high, and the second note only a couple inches high. But at full tempo, it ends up just being like you said, a slight natural accent.
 
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