What is the best cymbal brand?

[Strangelove]

I would caution against calling a cymbal higher quality in reference to hand vs machine made.

Handmade: may have more subtle variances, possibly some minor irregularities.

Machine made: highest possible product cosistancy, higher production speed.

I have owned both types, and each has it's merit/charms. But I never considered my handmade Turkish pies to be "higher quality" than my Machine made American pies.

It's more about the bakers flavor than quality.

Good points. I really should say professional series versus semi professional and amateur series. My whole point is that yes, there are quality differences in cymbals, but I think it is silly to say one manufacturer is better than another. Each one has it's hits and misses, in my opinion.

 

[kwolf68]

All companies make good product.

I personally like Sabian. I like the fact they are North American made (I have a very soft spot in my heart for Canada anyway) and I absolutely love the deep, dark rich sounds the HH lines produce. Even the AAX dark crash gives out that sound that does it for me and the AA and AAX lines are supposed to be much brighter.

And that's the key, does it for me. Just try out as many cymbals as you can and stick with what really appeals to you.

In the end, when you're playing a gig NO ONE is gonna whine about how your cymbals sound so long as you're playing well. You could probably slap a topping of Sabian B8s or Zildjian ZXTs and most lay people wouldn't know or care, just so it sounds like a cymbla.

 

[trkdrmr]

Good points. I really should say professional series versus semi professional and amateur series. My whole point is that yes, there are quality differences in cymbals, but I think it is silly to say one manufacturer is better than another. Each one has it's hits and misses, in my opinion.

Yeah, I can hear serious flaws in zbt/zxt's

I hear *minor* flaws in Alphas.

But the top line cymbals have a voice and shimmer that stand above any of the entry or intermediate cymbals.

Handmade b20 have a complexity that B8 and machined B20 usually don't.

 

[kwolf68]

Yeah, I can hear serious flaws in zbt/zxt's

I hear *minor* flaws in Alphas.

But the top line cymbals have a voice and shimmer that stand above any of the entry or intermediate cymbals.

Handmade b20 have a complexity that B8 and machined B20 usually don't.

These are all mostly the entry line cymbals no? The ZBT/ZXTs and B8s are the beginner cymbals, and they are also dirt cheap.

When it comes to cymbals, you pretty much get what you pay for. The upper lines of all the brands are good product.

 

[trkdrmr]

These are all mostly the entry line cymbals no? The ZBT/ZXTs and B8s are the beginner cymbals, and they are also dirt cheap.

When it comes to cymbals, you pretty much get what you pay for. The upper lines of all the brands are good product.

Yeah, and the problem is: they are addictive!

I have mostly Zildjian A customs. But I could have fun with a set of 2002' sigs, Meinl mb20 or Byzance or any of the Turkish style cymbals.

With cymbals, it's a taste thing, there is no right answer. When you think you have a killer set of cymbals, you hear something else that makes you scramble for your credit card.

 

[IAN - W -]

As per Claus Hessler, He states:

"Because sound is so important for me, I really like HHX cymbals. With their simmering sound and 'Tone Projection' they are my favorite cymbal of all time! Like me, the cymbal makers at SABIAN are dedicated to their art. This isn't just another musical instrument; HHX is true 'Cymbalism.'

For further comments, check: http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Claus_Hessler.html

All The Best,

 

[kwolf68]

Yeah, and the problem is: they are addictive!

I have mostly Zildjian A customs. But I could have fun with a set of 2002' sigs, Meinl mb20 or Byzance or any of the Turkish style cymbals.

With cymbals, it's a taste thing, there is no right answer. When you think you have a killer set of cymbals, you hear something else that makes you scramble for your credit card.

No doubt, quite addictive.

I have a few A Customs myself. Very nice pies, but my taste is really more of a darker sound. Don't know why that is, just is. As you said, 'taste'. Really, cymbals are like food.

 

[Vintagedrummer]

Ah, the age old issue....How one gets to where they are now in theire quest for the perfect set of pies. Goes something like this:

First set - Pulse, Solar, zbt, etc.
Second Set - B8/B8Pro/Pro Sonix
Third Set - Mix brands (Paiste Alpha/Zildjian A's/Sabian AA or HH's, etc)
Fourth set - High end Dark (K Custom Dark, etc.)

From about set 3, on I use a mixture of brands. Sound is what I'm after, not names.

Peace

 

[trkdrmr]

No doubt, quite addictive.

I have a few A Customs myself. Very nice pies, but my taste is really more of a darker sound. Don't know why that is, just is. As you said, 'taste'. Really, cymbals are like food.

This weeks it's bright and shimmery, next week it's dark, and then it's dry.

Never too many cymbals or snares...

 

[xl120]

I always picked my cymbals by how fast they react for me, and how much effort it takes to get them really moving.

I also tend to stay in a line of cymbals, as I've just felt that sympathetically cymbals within the same series tend to blend well together.

That being said I'm a big fan of the Paiste Signatures, and Traditionals for their speed, and effortless volume.

Currently I'm back to using Zildjian K Custom Darks as they are very similar but have a little more control, and darkness to them, but a quick and easy to play.

I've had a hard time playing Sabian for some reason, I just feel I have put a lot more effort to get the response I'm looking for.

rd

 

[trkdrmr]

I've had a hard time playing Sabian for some reason, I just feel I have put a lot more effort to get the response I'm looking for.

rd

Vaults take a lot of effort?

I can use vaults, but have to start 2" larger than other cymbals because they are so thin, they don't have any body until 18" diameter.

 

[Strangelove]

One of these days, Im going to have a set like Bozio, with stacked cymbals out the wazoo. I guarantee there will be enough Zildjans, Paistes, Sabians, Bosphorus', TRXs and Meinls to satisfy my particular ears.

The thing you younger guys need to realize is the only reason your favorite drummers use only one brand of cymbals, is that they are sponsored! Don't fall into the easy trap of product competition. Listen to alot of drummers and identify what you like in rides, hats, crashes, splashes and chinas. And don't limit yourself by genre of music, either. There is no such thing as cymbals only for jazz, rock, punk rock, metal, etc. That is another great marketing ploy.

 

[Strangelove]

Handmade b20 have a complexity that B8 and machined B20 usually don't.

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by complexity - ie that of sound or that of manufacturing. But I don't think handmade B20's have anything on handmade B8's. There's too many myths being passed around by manufacturers about why their competition is inferior. I wish that bs would stop.

 

[Boomka]

I agree, and it really depends on what you play and your budget. Go on what you like the sound of don't feel that you have to go for all zildjians or sabians or whatever search around and pick what you like. That's why loads of people have loads of different makes, series and sizes of cymbals !!

I third this sentiment. Funny thing; just this morning I was playing this cheapo machine-stamped budget cymbal (with no recognisable brand name on it) that came with a budget kit at a school I teach at. That cymbal has an amazing dark jazz ride sound. The material looks like brass to the naked eye, and yet it has all the character of plenty of expensive boutique hand-hammered B20 cymbals I've heard.

I own dozens of cymbals from several makes dating from the 1940's to the present and they all have their own character. I have never liked every cymbal from a particular brand. Heck, if you gave me 10 cymbals of the same model (assuming they're hand-hammered) I might like half of them.

What is the best cymbal? The one that's right for the job and/or the one that allows you to express the sound you want to express.

 

[trkdrmr]

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by complexity - ie that of sound or that of manufacturing. But I don't think handmade B20's have anything on handmade B8's. There's too many myths being passed around by manufacturers about why their competition is inferior. I wish that bs would stop.

B8's aren't as complex (sounding) as B20's...that's physics. B8's cut more, but with a simpler wash.

No myth about anything.

 

[xl120]

You can never have to many cymbals!!!

And never sell them, you'll regret it, and you'll always try to find the one to replace the one you sold...its never worth it, I think the only reason you should ever sell a cymbal is to pay rent or buy food.

I agree that cymbals aren't meant for particular styles of music, you need to play what feels, and sounds good to you.

Of course certain styles cut through the band better than others...but everyone looks for different things when playing a ride pattern, or hitting a crash. But thats the beauty of drums, everyone's setup is different, everyone hits the drum a little different, and in the end we look for different things in the equipment we play.

Brand really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it. Each of the major cymbal companies make very high quality product. And while I have had success with Zildjian and Paste it probably has more to do with the series of cymbals I was trying to play.

I will say though in terms of recording, and hearing play back, when cymbals come from a close family, meaning Paste Signatures mix well with traditionals, or Ks with K Custom Darks, they tend to blend well together. That is not to say that a K Custom Dark ride doesn't sound good with a Paste Signature crash...just its probably a little more of risk that it will work.

 

[Steamer]

B8's aren't as complex (sounding) as B20's...that's physics. B8's cut more, but with a simpler wash.

No myth about anything.

Agreed. It's not BS the difference is there to hear. Take a good quality cast hand shaped Turkish B20 pie and put a up directly to any handmade B8 pie out there and listen carefully you WILL hear the sonic differences in each formula of bronze especially in the area of complexity and general richness of tonality regarding B20. No "which is best" just there are sound characteristics in both best suited for each individual player and the music at hand IMO.

I've done just that so my findings stand for my opinion on the subject regarding both.

 

[Strangelove]

B8's aren't as complex (sounding) as B20's...that's physics. B8's cut more, but with a simpler wash.

No myth about anything.

No it is not physics. B20's have more tin in them, B8's have more copper. That's physics. You hear a simpler wash in B8's (I don't know which ones). I hear a longer and more sparkling decay in B8's (particularly Giant Beats and Rudes) than in any B20's I have ever heard. I'm sure I could claim B8s to be more complex from this standpoint, but this is my opinion, and not representative of physics.

 

[trkdrmr]

No it is not physics. B20's have more tin in them, B8's have more copper. That's physics. You hear a simpler wash in B8's (I don't know which ones). I hear a longer and more sparkling decay in B8's (particularly Giant Beats and Rudes) than in any B20's I have ever heard. I'm sure I could claim B8s to be more complex from this standpoint, but this is my opinion, and not representative of physics.

Now you are just being tiresome and argumentative just for the sake of being difficult. Yes, it's related to metallurgy, and physics (physical properties of the alloy).

You are the only person on the face of the earth, in my entire life that has ever put the complexity of b8 (like 2002) on the same plane as B20 (like signatures.)

Again, B8's are simpler than B20... argue all you want, none of the cymbalmakers, and everyone I have ever known or talked to hears the same thing.

2002's have a simple cutting clang compared to B20.

 

[Strangelove]

Now you are just being tiresome and argumentative just for the sake of being difficult. Yes, it's related to metallurgy, and physics (physical properties of the alloy).

You are the only person on the face of the earth, in my entire life that has ever put the complexity of b8 (like 2002) on the same plane as B20 (like signatures.)

Again, B8's are simpler than B20... argue all you want, none of the cymbalmakers, and everyone I have ever known or talked to hears the same thing.

2002's have a simple cutting clang compared to B20.

Now I see where you are headed - 2002's are "simply cutting and clanging" Now you are becoming tiresome and condascending. Why don't you prove to us that B8s are "simple" as you say, instead of just repeating it over and over? I have never seen somebody so enamored over an alloy mixture in my life. There is nothing more special about B20. It was the original formula for cymbals, it has been altered in the form of B8 and B15 to produce equally fine handmade cymbals in the past 40 years. It should really rely on the listener to determine which they like best, and not necessarily the alloy, but the manufacturer and product.

AND I DON'T EVEN HAVE A FULL SET OF B8s! I only like them as crashes. Let me guess, you play nothing but B20's.