What is jazz drumming?

Jazz: A couple of random examples

1) Medium:
2) Up:
 
jda said:

"just play the right notes (boo hoo hoo..."
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Too funny !
Usually when I listen to jazz solos, I find that there are no right notes. The goal of the solo is, to wander as far away from the melody as you can and then find a way to get back to the melody at the end of your solo. This even works for jazz drum solos. Depart from the tempo as far as you can, but keep the tempo in your head and eventually return to it.


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Anyone remember my friend saying it sounds like 4 guys being pushed down the stairs with their instruments, lol?
 
2 hit wonder said:
Anyone remember my friend saying it sounds like 4 guys being pushed down the stairs with their instruments, lol?
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l love that!!!

hell, my 5th graders on their first day today in band had some "jazz" elements in their playing....sounded like 60's miles and Coltrain
 
I guess a Black Sabbath = jazz conversation wouldn't be complete without:


It's jazzy, I guess-- I would just call it a rock or R&B instrumental-- there are more things in common with jazz than is usual for them.

Compare with a "rocky" jazz recording, also a one-chord vamp:


Jack Dejohnette plays a lot busier than Bill Ward, but what's important is the groove is interactive between all of the instruments, so the drummer doesn't have to state the bare outlines of the groove the whole time. And the chops are not the point of it whatsoever, they're playing energy.
 
toddbishop said:
I guess a Black Sabbath = jazz conversation wouldn't be complete without:


It's jazzy, I guess-- I would just call it a rock or R&B instrumental-- there are more things in common with jazz than is usual for them.

Compare with a "rocky" jazz recording, also a one-chord vamp:


Jack Dejohnette plays a lot busier than Bill Ward, but what's important is the groove is interactive between all of the instruments, so the drummer doesn't have to state the bare outlines of the groove the whole time. And the chops are not the point of it whatsoever, they're playing energy.
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I hadn't heard that Sabbath track before (or even anything off that album I don't think) but that was pretty sick. Definitely a little bit off the norm for them with the horns, but it was cool.

And then of course, these guys whom I've posted before:
 
Oh, eff! I'm def listening to that!
 
Seafroggys said:
I hadn't heard that Sabbath track before (or even anything off that album I don't think) but that was pretty sick. Definitely a little bit off the norm for them with the horns, but it was cool.
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yeah, that is not one of their best albums...

Seafroggys said:
And then of course, these guys whom I've posted before:
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also will be aadding these guys to my Spotify playlist!!!!
 
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Seafroggys said:
What do you mean? I love Black Sabbath, I love Bill Ward, he's an amazing player.

Jazz is a pretty wide genre of music, I'm definitely no purist when it comes to jazz.

But I wouldn't consider Black Sabbath jazz. And there's nothing wrong with that.
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Jazz definition:

a type of music of African American origin characterized by improvisation, syncopation, and usually a regular or forceful rhythm, emerging at the beginning of the 20th century


Listen to this song. Nothing about Bill Wards play is straight ahead. Those are big band fills ..........it's as fantastic as Santanas Latino beats with rock.


 
DB7 said:
Jazz definition:

a type of music of African American origin characterized by improvisation, syncopation, and usually a regular or forceful rhythm, emerging at the beginning of the 20th century


Listen to this song. Nothing about Bill Wards play is straight ahead. Those are big band fills ..........it's as fantastic as Santanas Latino beats with rock.


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Watch the Adam Neely video I posted. He specifically references your point.

A definition of jazz made by jazz musicians and scholars, according to his video, uses three elements: Swing, Blues, and Improvisation. Of course, there's tons of music that we'd never call jazz that swings, has blues inflections, and improvisation. (and of course, there's jazz that doesn't have those three elements, which Neely also talks about)

If we're really going to loosely define jazz as some widely encompassing thing, then everything is jazz and genre doesn't matter, so this whole discussion is pointless.
 
Alex Sanguinetti said:
Jazz: A couple of random examples
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I dig the Tim Green 5tet.. its got groove, melody lines that are memorable .. not just the head but some solo lines as well, the band has a great sound overall. I’ve heard Kenny Garret before and thats a good example of what puzzles me..on this particular track.. a lot of notes, no clear melody line.. a lot of improvised noodling that is so busy its difficult to follow even with my keen ears. I admire the skill and interplay, but it doesn’t really move me at all.. maybe that’s the point! It’s very abstract.. like a painting that uses all the colors in the box.. very busy! Hes on the big jazz festival circuits so there must be a market for this .. but not easy to listen to.But amazing sax player and that drummer is killing it! i listened to a lot of his stuff in the 80’s and Garret is a major cat.. more to him than just this example..

I guess my rhetorical question was kind of answered by this and many of the great insights others have posted here.. I still love modern jazz, and all kinds of different spins on it. I think sometimes its just so outside that I wonder.. if I’m struggling to make sense out of it.. how are non-musicians ever going to get this.
 
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moxman said:
I think sometimes its just so outside that I wonder.. if I’m struggling to make sense out of it.. how are non-musicians ever going to get this.
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Which is why you don't see large venues and concerts full of jazz fans.

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moxman said:
1) if I’m struggling to make sense out of it.. how are non-musicians ever going to get this.
Hollywood Jim said:
2) Which is why you don't see large venues and concerts full of jazz fans.
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It's about art, not the size of the audience.

Or do scientists (to choose a specific group) have to wait for people to understand what they do or study? What level of development would the world be at today if that were the case?

Another thing I find strange is the obsession with money on the part of people who are actually hobby musicians. Are you professional musicians? (question to both of you).

Mega stadiums, big concerts, etc. is, in my opinion it is the worst place to play for a jazz musician, the best environment is the jazz club where the music can be perceived without any or minimal amplification (where the sound has no filtering whatsoever and you can play and make use of all the dynamics, in absolute "intimacy")

Personally, I find attendance at mega concerts (huge rock and pop events, celebrations of winning soccer cups on the street, sports stadiums, etc.), where crowds go, quite unpleasant, like any other gathering where large masses of get together, whatever the reason for the gathering.
 
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Enough about definitions, singers, jokes (?), where is the "Jazz Drumming" guys? Looks to me you don´t know what to post...

Compare two trios playing up tempo from the 70´s:

A) Tony Williams, Ron Carter, McCoy Tyner


B) Jack DeJohnette, Eddie Gomez, McCoy Tyner

I think it is very interesting, as the format, leader, date and approximate tempo are the same, only changes:
the bassist, the song, and a different drummer, both MAJOR!
 
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beatdat said:
I would love to hear Christopher Walken narrate what you wrote.
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Here you go:


Jazz may lean "more humane" ................... for a drummer ...................less slavery and or over the top ................ gymnastics
........................more liberating/freedom/ participation contribution/ maybe in a less restrictive altho - not .................entirely................... without guardrails - way.
Equality. ................... Participation.

It's that .....quality... that leads Some to call Some Rock drummers, "jazzy"...............
(liberation/ stewart copeland, Ian Paice, early ...................Kreutzman ....dead, etc
artists ....................individuals painters .....................poets with sticks....................... more than wood choppers.
poets with sticks
 
Contemporary Jazz is a loose collection of genres based on musical forms that arose around the United States from about the 1900's-1950. In this time period certain jazz groups constituted the dominant pop form. During this time the Jazz form(s) were highly diverse due to American geography, some of the forms included Dixieland, Big Band Swing, Vuadville, Bop and later Hard Bop.
 
all of the philosophiocal and cultural elements aside...

at the root, I still feel like jazz is rooted in the feel of the spang-a-lang rhythm. The broken triplet feel that that is.

for me, that is what sets it apart from metal, disco, rhumba, EDM, etc...
 
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