Its right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-36cRdxBO4kTo jwildman, I'd love to check out your video, but where's the link?
And thank you, Toby!
You're right, I'm labeling feel as "subdivision awareness", and reserving other qualities such as playing in time, appropriate dynamics, and vocabulary for other discussions. Funny you mention Copeland, I think he has "wandering" subdivisions (there are other qualities in his drumming I really love). I also think it takes a well-developed "internal clock" to appreciate Steve Gadd's feel, especially within a plain piece of drumming (not a lot of notes), and this is why drummers of less experience aren't turned on.
Consider rap and electronic music. Even since Run DMC, samples and loops often "rub" each other: they don't line up and synchronize perfectly, and this creates interest and tension in the music.
And in be bop, it's customary - no, obligatory - that the drummer swing the 8ths, and the horns and other lead instruments play them straight or with a little bounce. Same general effect: it creates interest and tension in the music, and we hear "groove" and "momentum".
Around my area, there are lots of drummers who grew up playing in Baptist church worship bands, and they, for the most part, have the same feel: quantized. But I would never say they had bad feel, or no feel, just a feel that serves their music very, very well. Fortunately, it also serves pop and R n B!
So, a feel is an approach to the subdivisions in the music. You might be good at one feel, but if it isn't called for, you might be out of a gig!
For me, here you are just taking away ANY type of creativity, we are'nt metronomes..gotta have something in there no? agree?Here's an exercise that you should be able to do that could help you with feel. Pick any song you like, play along with it, but JUST KEEP TIME. No fills allowed, no accent crashes, no ghost notes, nothing but THE BEAT. Stripped down, bare bones timekeeping. As little notes as humanly possible. Just keep the beat. It's harder than you think resisting those temptations to stray. Just keep straight non changing time. And try and keep it perfectly even. Make sure you pop that snare, play time like it's the most important thing on earth. Keep your volumes on each drum or cymbal consistant.
It's good to simplify. If you can't play something simple beautifully, you can't play anything harder beautifully either.
Make that time feel so good, the girls wanna F you.
I used to feel things too much. I had to learn to detach because I would get so "into it" that even though in my head I thought I was THE MAN, in reality I was majorly deluding myself. What I thought I sounded like was entirely different than what I actually sounded like. So after hearing those initial recordings of my playing (yikes, there's something majorly wrong with this recorder! That's not me!) I substituted honest listening in place of "getting into it". Best move I ever made.
Bos, for context, have a listen the recordings Larry's posted on the site. He is a lively and dynamic blues drummer - a long way from just playing 2 and 4, and with more ghosts than a haunted house!For me, here you are just taking away ANY type of creativity, we are'nt metronomes..gotta have something in there no? agree?
Ya some situations require the ole 2 and 4, but why not jusy add texture with ghost notes and such, in a lot of musical situations it does'nt take away from the music, like this video..
do you think that is feel? He is playing a hell of a lot of ghost notes!
Watched your video, good stuff, and sweet kit!
+1, absolutely! I'd be thrilled to have you as a student! And you are certainly at a crossroads in your playing. You have shown courage and maturity beyond your years in asking for this kind of advice. Kudos!To JWildman...
Dude, I know you've heard more than a few people knock your playing, but really, you don't suck, far from it. You have the necessary skills to be awesome. You are just at a certain point in your development that most everyone has to pass through. Drumming (and life, really) is all about awareness. You are becoming aware that you need more feel. Good for you. You are doing the right things with the right attitude and I just wanted to give you some props. You're doing great.
Think about the QNP (quarter note pulse) and try and incorporate it into your playing.
Ya, i agree with pretty much all of that, but I was just saying that you still have to be able to play ghost notes and such. I know that with the band I am in at the moment, playing ghost notes can become a hinderance! I suppose playing with them is my PRACTICE for a clean groove. But I know what you mean, I have in the past lost time because i WAS'NT playing ghost notes and such, this was generally on slow songs where there was a big gap between snare hits, I found that playing to like a 70bpm metronome really helped me with that!Thanks for going to bat for me w/ Bosphorus Pol. (more ghosts than a haunted house...too funny...you really are a literary gem) Yea Bos, this was just an exercise I suggested to J to develop good feeling time, the basis for all good drumming. Think's it's easy playing "easy?" It takes a ton of disipline. If you can't play something "easy" beautifully, then you can't play anything harder beautifully either. I wasn't suggesting J play nothing but time for his other playing, just this one exercise.
For someone who is trying to cop a better feel, I'd be remiss in suggesting he start out with anything harder than the most basic of basics. Don't skip the basics, because guess what? After you take a trip around the drumming universe with all the complex possibilities...after a while, you see the true worth of basic skills, and realize that the better you can play simply (and make it feel oh sooo good...)...the more others will want to play with you. That's just a plain fact..
For sure. Keith Moon is a great example. The man definitely overplayed. (and we're all the richer for it) But he had his own vision and felt things in such a way that he has forged his own style.But you can have great feel and somewhatoverplay, think so?
I should be posting up some feel groove kind of videos soon, I;'d love for you to have a look, seems as though you have a good handle on that stuff!For sure. Keith Moon is a great example. The man definitely overplayed. (and we're all the richer for it) But he had his own vision and felt things in such a way that he has forged his own style.
Once you have good feel, (and adequate execution) almost anything you do will sound good.
It should be said there are a few drummers who learned to play "top down" rather than "bottom up" (putting aside double entendres - ahem). That is, instead of starting with the basics and building on them, they work on playing phrases they want to play.
Generally these players don't quite achieve the same crispness of time feel as the "building blocks" musicians but they can still become top notch drummers, e.g. Keith Moon, Chris Cutler.
The "building blocks" approach is not the only way, but I do think it's much more efficient in the long run, with the only danger being that there's a risk of losing your way and becoming mechanistic without the right guidance or persistence of artistic vision. With proper mentoring from a teacher who "really gets it", the "building from the bottom up" approach allows musicians to make rapid strides.
That's what the students pay for - a logical, sequential, efficient approach that leaves the door open for later exploration. I can't imagine a competent teacher taking the top-down approach - that's generally reserved for self-taught crazies like meI have to agree with you here, G. That's the way I teach.
It's nice to challenge oneself; but in the end it's all about the boom and chuck.