What do you look for in a company drum video?

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
This is a two part question really. What elements/vibe/details do you value in:

1/ A video designed to show what the drum/drums sound like

2/ A video designed to entertain you.

Please also include what you don't like to see/hear.

I'm running two days of tracking & one day edit next week. It's our biggest session ever, & although the session plan is pretty much set, I find great value in canvassing opinions, & if I can't include/exclude something this time around, I can factor it in next time around. Please take budget/time constraints into account.

As always, your participation is hugely appreciated.

Andy.
 

David Floegel

Silver Member
This is a two part question really. What elements/vibe/details do you value in:

1/ A video designed to show what the drum/drums sound like

2/ A video designed to entertain you.

Please also include what you don't like to see/hear.
For me it's actually a mix of 1 and 2.

But, what I don't like to see hear in big company videos is how deeeeeeply in love the artists with the drums are:
"Best sounding drums ever" "I have NEVER played a drum like that"

and 2 weeks later they switch the endorsement company and talk the same sh*t again:
"These are the most innovative drums ever"
"These are the BEST SOUNDING drums ever"

Well, just my 2 cents :)
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
But, what I don't like to see hear in big company videos is how deeeeeeply in love the artists with the drums are:
So artist interviews within the video are a bit of a turn off then. Is that because you're not interested in what they have to say, or is it because you doubt their sincerity?

Guys, in your replies, if you have links to examples, that would be cool :)
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
Your videos are probably the best that I've seen for showing what the drums sound like without eq.

I often find myself not wanting to listen to some drum videos if I know they use eq, or intro music. The loud, stupid intros are the things that really make me hit the mute as fast as possible.

In my perfect world it would be two overheads and one for the whole set. That's all. If possible, it would be cool to hear a set with two different sets of heads.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I want a video with two things.

A. No EQ'ing so that they sound like an audio engineers dream. Just the drums with maybe one microphone overhead.

B. Leave the cymbals in the case. I want to hear the drums. Most videos show some drummer with some funky beat that hits the cymbals more than the drums, like a chops fest.
And don't tap the drums. Play them. Do a few tom runs, a few fills, and tell me what drum set or model you are playing in the beginning and end. To me it's fairly simple.

Andy thanks for asking. Very smart idea.
 

JimFiore

Silver Member
If I'm looking for data then I don't want to be entertained. I find that distracting, especially lame attempts at humor.

My idea of good videos are the ones Drum Center of Portland (NH) puts up for their cymbals. The camera shows a cymbal on a stand, that's it. They say "This is a Whizoo 16" medium crash, blah-blah series, 1010 grams". They hit it hard a couple times, then hit the bell, do a roll, play a little pattern. The whole thing is done in under a minute. No background music, no one playing the cymbal as part of a larger kit, just the item of interest. And no other commentary like "You gotta get this cymbal, it's the best thing since the invention of the wheel."

For drums, I'd like the same kind of thing. For an entire kit, it would be good to also hear a short bit with the whole kit being played, just something simple, preferably without cymbals (don't want that to influence me).

When it comes to research like this I'm a Joe Friday "Just the facts, ma'm" kinda guy. But, to be fair, my wife always says that I'm "not like normal people", so maybe you shouldn't weigh my opinion too heavily.
 
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The Old Hyde

Guest
what is the purpose of the video, is it marketing ?
is it a drum solo or a small band type thing?

I wish I had better input on this, I think its both but an even mix of both. 100% of what David said also about the artist gushing over the kit. Let the viewer gush over the kit, we don't need to be told to do so. I like the recent vid you shot over your right shoulder ( the drumming was the worst Ive EVER seen or heard) but the sound was there and you played the entire kit to give a good idea of each drum. be sure to show the bass drum being played as well. you want the drums to be the star, so don't lose them in the mix. close ups of the hardware may be good to show the design is a good idea maybe.

hmmm, maybe a kickport and a lot of gospel chops.....
 

JustJames

Platinum Member
Let me make my credentials abundantly clear: I've only ever bought one drum kit, and that was a second hand Ebay purchase.

There are two main probs with sound and an online video:
1. How can I know how honest or otherwise the recording is?
2. How good is the sound reproduction system I am listening through?

Between those two, and the fact that I have learnt that head choice and tuning also makes a mahoosive difference, drum sounds in a vid are largely meaningless.

KIS, I know you go to a lot of trouble to present honest recordings, but I think that the odds are stacked heavily against your recordings - however honest and well made - doing you much good.

I've also learnt that you are an immensely knowledgeable person, well liked, and good at getting your ideas across. And you also have well reasoned opinions as to why you build drums the way that you do.

The bigger drum companies have budgetary advantages over you...but they ain't got you.

The conclusion I've reached, and it wasn't any sort of intention when I started typing, is that you need to be in front of the camera talking enthusiastically about the design approaches you have taken and the benefits that they bring. Do the kind of thing that other drum manufacturers simply cannot do.

But please, no windchimes, however thickly veiled.
 
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The Old Hyde

Guest
The bigger drum companies have budgetary advantages over you...but they ain't got you.


But please, no windchimes, however thickly veiled.
Trust me, they are thankful they don't....

And how did I miss the windchimes !!!???
 

JimFiore

Silver Member
you need to be in front of the camera talking enthusiastically about the design approaches you have taken and the benefits that they bring.
I agree wholeheartedly if the intent is to focus on the general company ethos versus showcasing a particular design. The drums need to speak for themselves. Perhaps a few words would be in order regarding mic choice, placement, etc. and making it known that EQ, compression or other processing have not been used.

If all I heard in a video was the owner discuss design philosophy and such, it might pique my interest but then I'm going to want to hear the end result.
 
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The Old Hyde

Guest
here is a useful tip if you get in front of the camera....talk with one of those cool British accents and say things like "bloke" a lot.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
If possible, it would be cool to hear a set with two different sets of heads.
I'm planning on doing that to one kit next week, time permitting. Thank you :)

And don't tap the drums. Play them.
I always try to include a range of dynamics, & that includes some lighter strikes. As our drums are especially good at opening up in lighter playing, it's an important element for us, but I like to keep that short.

For an entire kit, it would be good to also hear a short bit with the whole kit being played, just something simple, preferably without cymbals (don't want that to influence me).
I hear you on drums without cymbals, but I think inclusion of cymbals at some point is also important. Even though you're not featuring the cymbals, kit drums need to be heard in a commonly found context.

I like the recent vid you shot over your right shoulder ( the drumming was the worst Ive EVER seen or heard)
This is exactly why I ask drummers who can actually play to track our videos :)

There are two main probs with sound and an online video:
1. How can I know how honest or otherwise the recording is?
2. How good is the sound reproduction system I am listening through?
Valid points. on point 1, it's really down to how honest you think the makers of the video are. You can be told there's no EQ or enhancement processing, but outside of the audibly obvious, how do you really know that? Those with really good ears who have vast experience of recording a lot of drums can probably tell, but most can't. I'd like to think that we're the little guy pushing a mostly unwilling industry slowly in the direction of truthful recordings, but that's probably not true. I am seeing increasing claims of honest recordings, but really, I can tell that's pure BS on way more than half of them.

What you're listening through is a big deal. Even on the best of gear, especially headphones, you're missing out compared to the sound in the room. We "hear" through our bodies much more than you'd think, especially lower frequencies. We never manage to capture the rich low end we get in the room. We could use EQ to replace the loss on capture, but of course, that's not what we do.

of intention when I started typing, is that you need to be in front of the camera talking enthusiastically about the design approaches you have taken and the benefits that they bring. Do the kind of thing that other drum manufacturers simply cannot do.
I'm pretty sure that won't be happening, although the idea in principal is quite valid. I don't want to be accused of being a wannabe John Good. I think one is enough for anyone. I'd rather let the drums do the talking, & let the website fill in the details. That might not be the smartest marketing move, but there's something very boring about ramming "features" down the throats of those who just want to hear what the damn drums sound like.

Trust me, they are thankful they don't....
I've not been made any offers by major companies for my services, so I think you're safe ;)
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
FWIW here's some thoughts.

All this is JMO only.

Not a big fan of big loud long intros. A silent logo shot with stuff to read (in silence) is classier IMO. The first drums I want to hear are the ones being showcased.

Not a fan of too much talking before playing. Just a quick introduction, with succinct vital info, and get right to it. Play first, talk after (if needed) instead of the reverse. Keep any initial talking limited to about 10 seconds.

I'm with John...no cymbals to distract the player into just playing beats. Not even a high hat. We are evaluating drums, not the player, and not the cymbals. I want to hear the toms, bass and snare in that order. Maybe at the very end have an outtro with a full kit and the player showing how the drums sound with cymbals. But not for the main course. I do like the different dynamic treatments. I want to hear the drums soft, medium and really loud.

Any words on the screen, such as stating what heads/tuning/whatever...needs to stay on screen for the entire segment.

I think the whole honest thing is the best thing I've seen. You guys own that. As long as you have decent headphones, whatever you're listening to it on is fine. My laptop sounds like crap, but I plug the headphones in and now I get the real flavor of the drums.

BTW did you catch the John Goode interview where he says he is starting to move towards stainless tension rods and 50 TPI? I think he is checking you guys out lol.

So looking forward to this latest video Andy. Top bloke for asking for input too. Listening to the customers and actually using their suggestions (if they are good) is something that you guys could really capitalize on. Who does that? Most companies are so big and faceless. Their weakpoint is your strength. You are in intimate contact with the drumming community (thank you Bernhard) thanks to DW, and that goes like a really looooong way with me. With Guru, you're not just buying a drumset, you are part of a new way of thinking about the whole drum experience. You guys have had so many firsts compared to the others, in such a short time, because you threw out the book and are writing a new one. I can only applaud that. Status quo's need to be shaken up and rethought.

Long live Andy, Dean and Guru drums.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Not a big fan of big loud long intros.

Not a fan of too much talking before playing.

no cymbals to distract the player into just playing beats.

I want to hear the toms, bass and snare in that order.

I want to hear the drums soft, medium and really loud.

Any words on the screen, such as stating what heads/tuning/whatever...needs to stay on screen for the entire segment.
Hearing you loud & clear on these points Larry. Of course, we're never going to deliver everyone's ideal video. Someone will always want to see more of something, or less of something else, & then there's time/budget constraints to consider too :(

Thank you for your kind words Larry, & yes, I did pick up on the stainless steel 50 TPI comment. DW already do Stainless steel tension screws (as an option I believe), & also use M5 threads in some cases (approx 30 TPI). 50TPI does have a place, especially on smaller drums, but it also has downsides. Fiddling with TPI on tension rods is more of an instrument augmentation than real innovation, but it all adds up. Best not to over state it though ;)
 

GeoB

Gold Member
I don't know if I have really ever heard one. I have listened to cymbal vids but that was so undeterminable it became an exercise in futility. I imagine drum vids are the same. At least for the pure sake of trying to make a determination on a brand, or construct, or expendable item.
 

Magenta

Platinum Member
Numpty alert: I'd like to be told what I'm supposed to be listening out for. Often I know that I like or dislike what I hear, but I can't always identify exactly what it is that I like or dislike.
 

drum4fun27302

Gold Member
Would be nice to have a video shot with the basic mics. (D112,57on snare, and room mike).
Not the two mines per tom , etc,etc.

Or maybe just one good room mic and nothing else.
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
I know you are going to think this is an insane idea, but here goes.

Record a short piece (small part of the video) with old used drum heads on the drums. This to show how the drums sound with used heads.

After all most of us are playing our drums with used drum heads.


.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
KIS,

My recommendation is to simply make a nice sounding, visually appealing video with a good musical performance by a talented drummer.

Truth be told, unless I put ambassadors on your drums, and get a Ludwig Maple kit (Or other kit I'm intimate with) and do an A/B comparison, then I'm not going to have a good idea of what your drums sound like. Very few people can hear an instrument cold and over youtube and have a clue of what they really sound like. Heck, I can't even sit behind a drum set and know what it sounds like half the time.

So you might as well try to sell your other attributes (extremely quality hand made boutique drums) in the hopes of getting people interested enough to come hear your kits, which I'm pretty certain sound spectacular.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I don't know if I have really ever heard one. I have listened to cymbal vids but that was so undeterminable it became an exercise in futility. I imagine drum vids are the same. At least for the pure sake of trying to make a determination on a brand, or construct, or expendable item.
This is why we put a lot of effort into delivering a completely honest representation of the sound in the room. If anything, the audio is less impressive than the room sound, & we're completely transparent in how we recorded the drums.

Numpty alert: I'd like to be told what I'm supposed to be listening out for. Often I know that I like or dislike what I hear, but I can't always identify exactly what it is that I like or dislike.
I don't think it's the place of manufacturer's to school potential clients on what's important & what's not. You either like it or you don't, & there's a clarity of decision attached to that approach that's more important than one feature vs. another.

Would be nice to have a video shot with the basic mics. (D112,57on snare, and room mike).
Not the two mines per tom , etc,etc.

Or maybe just one good room mic and nothing else.
We do all of that. Usually a combination of overheads & bass drum mic, then a close mic capture as a comparison. Depends on time constraints though :(

I know you are going to think this is an insane idea, but here goes.

Record a short piece (small part of the video) with old used drum heads on the drums. This to show how the drums sound with used heads.

After all most of us are playing our drums with used drum heads.


.
The session we're doing next week will feature used heads by default. It's rare that we fit completely new heads for an honest capture session. They're not beat up heads, but they have been well used. Keeps it real, & keeps the cost down :)
 
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