What band or bands that changed members became better or worse in your opinion?

doggyd69b

doggyd69b

Platinum Member
I don't know if I would say better but at least maintained their momentum:

Slayer (when Dave Lombardo left Paul Bostaph took the helm and while they have very different styles the band didn't seem to suffer much for that. To me both are just as good but I like their playing for different reasons and that goes to show how much a drummer change can... change a band but yet retain the band's essence.

Metallica when Dave Mustaine left and was replaced by Kirk Hammet... I guess we will never know how different their music be but I have a feeling that Mustaine would have basically dictated a lot of the musical direction because for some reason he seems to be the one that has the balls to put Lars in his place when needed.

for a more recent and much less metal the band Dream State when the singer in the video below left I feel the band lost a lot of what made them complete:


We also talked in the past about bands basically becoming a franchise and not having many or none of the original members (by their own admission Slipknot want the band to continue to exist AFTER they are done/gone). So I guess that and members age/issues will be what kills that band... or not??
 
Bo Eder said:
I think when Queen came back without Freddie Mercury - that was hurtful. He was such a huge presence to me. I love Queen and admired them for moving forward, but it wasn’t the same without Freddie 😕
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I can see that Freddie basically made Queen and the band was just second to him so yes, replacing him at that point just didn't make sense unless it was made as a tribute and not trying to pretend it was the same as before. Similar to what is happening with Pantera where both the drummer and guitar player brothers died and the two remaining original members (bassist and singer) recruited the guitarist best friend and the drummer's friend to fill those spots and still call themselves Pantera even though most of us think they should just call themselves Pantera Tribute... The only good thing out of this is that the new generation who never had to the opportunity to listen to the original band is discovering it and hopefully some of them will pick a guitar or drums and continue to make playing in bands relevant for years to come.
 
I think we can all agree that we wouldn't be talking about Rush in the same way if John Rutsey had remained their drummer. And then there's Pete Best and Stu Sutcliffe...

When Keith Moon passed away and was replaced by Kenney Jones, the Who became a respectable pop band, which of course was not what the Who was ever meant to be. I quite like Zak Starkey's playing with them, it's reminiscent of Moonie without being derivative.

And then when Jeff Porcaro passed away, Simon Phillips kept Toto going. Not a step lost.

Of course, when Peter Gabriel left Genesis and Phil Collins stepped up, things changed. Your taste will dictate if it was for the better. Same with Alan White replacing Bill Bruford in Yes (not to mention all the other changes in their lineups over the years).

Primus has had I forget how many drummers since the mid-90s but that's very much Les Claypool's band so it's gonna sound like Primus no matter what.

And that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head...
 
oh man....I could go on forever on this topic...I will pick the big ones for me

got worse: (and no offense to the performers as this is truly subjective)
Iron Maiden - when Bruce left, and Blaze Baily came in...it wasn't Maiden anymore
Ozzy - when Jake E Lee left, and Zakk Wylde came in....boring blues metal
Black Sabbath - when Dio left; even though I liked the Born Again album with Ian Gillan, that was the beginning of the "downward slide"
Metallica - after the Black album when "Metallica" left and the other group came in to do all of the suck that has been the post-Black catalog
Kansas - when John Elefante came in; I really liked Vinyl Confessions, but it was definitely not the same group after that album
Styx - when the split happened after Mr. Roboto; it took me a looooong time to get back into them
Megadeth - losing Gar Samuelsson on drums. He gave them a very punky, punch in the face kind of feel. I don't think they got worse when Nick Mendoza joined, but they got less GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (or GAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR)

got better:
Rush - the addition of Neil was THE springboard for Rush as we know them; and no disrespect to John Rutsey of course
Black Sabbath - when Dio joined; I feel like this gave the band some direcdtion after the meandering oif the last 2 albums with Ozzy
Iron Maiden - keeping Yannic Gers for the Brave New World and beyond line up definitely worked. They are probably the only band who could make 3 guitar players not be offensive
Fates Warning - the addition of Ray Alder; again, I love John Arch, and his albums are foundational in my life, but when Ray came along, it made the vocals match what the instruments were doing and then elevated the whole group to LEGEND

stayed the same:
Slayer - I always thought that Paul Bostaph was a great fit, and actually noticed them having a little bit of a groovier pocket when he was along

so I will stop with these for now, as I could turn this into a 40 paragraph diatribe of the past 40 years of music in my life....
 
Lots of choices for both…

I’ll go with a twofer: RHCP got better when Chad Smith joined and have always been worse when John Frusciante leaves.

I also never liked Incubus after Dirk Lance left. Not sure how much that had to do with him, though.
 
Bands Who Got Better By Losing a Member

Green Day -- Tre Cool replaces Al Sobrante (left for college) for "Kerplunk."

Fleetwood Mac -- Jazzy Bob Welch replaced by Lindsey Buckingham (who insisted on bringing in GF Stevie Nicks).

Pink Floyd -- Syd Barrett replaced by David Gilmour

Nirvana -- Drummer Chad Channing replaced by Dave Grohl. Never mind what happened next!

Foo Fighters -- William Goldsmith quits (after Grohl replaces all his parts) and Taylor Hawkins is hired.

Bands Who Got Worse After Replacing a Member

Temptations -- David Ruffin quits and is replaced by Dennis Edwards Jr.

Supremes -- Diana Ross goes solo in 1970 and is replaced by Jean Terrell.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
oh man....I could go on forever on this topic...I will pick the big ones for me

got worse: (and no offense to the performers as this is truly subjective)

Ozzy - when Jake E Lee left, and Zakk Wylde came in....boring blues metal
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Wow, I totally disagree. I think Zakk gave Ozzy a kick in the butt he needed. Jake was an amazing soloist, but Zakk had a solid groove to his rhythm, playing that Ozzy needed.

I remember talking to the late Randy Castillo about Zakk's audition, and he said everyone else came in showing how fast they could play and Zakk came and in just laid down some solid riffs.

Fates Warning - the addition of Ray Alder; again, I love John Arch, and his albums are foundational in my life, but when Ray came along, it made the vocals match what the instruments were doing and then elevated the whole group to LEGEND
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Agree.

I don't really even consider the Arch-era Fates Warning. I mean, I know it exists, but to be the band became a band when Ray joined,
 
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Better:

I may be in the minority, but I think Rainbow got better with Joe Lyn Turner on vocals. Not to knock Dio or Graham Bonnet, but Joe just seemed to fit more like a glove.

I know I'm in the minority, but I think Sammy Hagar replacing David Lee Roth gave Van Halem more depth, more emotion, and not just a party band singing about beer and chicks (although Sammy did plenty of that too).

Lacuna Coil somehow got better when both of their long time guitarists left the band. They got better when 2nd guitarist Marco Biazzi left the band. I saw one of their 1st gigs as a 1 guitar band, and the sound on stage was so much cleaner with just one guitar. And then when Cristiano "Pizza" Migliore left the band, the band out out Delirium which was so much heavier and a massive improvement over the last few alsums. It really reignited my fandom in Lacauna Coil.


Worse
That said, I think drummers Cristiano "Criz" Mozzati and his replacement Ryan Folden both eventually leaving Lacuna Coil at different times made it worse. The new guy just doesn't groove as well live.

Scott Rockenfield leaving Queensryche. Chris Degarmo's leaving torpedoed the band, but most fans forget, that their career sank before Degarmo left the band. Watching Geoff Tate and the band split was hard. But they hadn't been relative in a long while. The new "Rising West" lineup did bring something back. Some new energy, and some hope maybe they could turn it around. But once Scott left, now it's just 2/5 of the original band. And while I do like some of the new songs, seeing them live was, well, weird. Some cool moments, but it was also like seeing a cover band. I can't stomach it.

Arnerl replacing Steve Perry, Steve Augeri and Deen Castrono on lead vocals for Journey. I mean, ok, the band has ever sounded the same without Perry, but given Perry doesn't like touring, I get it. Augeri wasn't bad, until his voice gave out. Deen sounds more like Perry than anyone, but he didn't want to go out front. How the bleep Neal Schon thought Arnel was the best choice, I'll never understand. He pales to Deen. He pronounces words funny, He technically can hit the notes, but there's no emotion. He made Journey unwatchable to me.

Kevin Moore leaving Dream Theater. He took so much songwriting with him. I think they should have kept Derek Sherinian, who could at least play the parts and brought a lot of feel to his own parts. But no, they had to kick him out and bring in the guy who completely ruined the band, Jordan Rudess. Sure Jordan can technically play rings around Derek. His speed and proficently is unmatched. But adding a bunch of speed and technical skills killed off any sense of songwriting.
 
When Uriah Heep kicked out David Byron on vocals, they lost that special magic, to me. Although I was not even born yet when that happened, but I haven't heard much of their material after him that was very much noteworthy... He had a very special voice.
 
Has no one mentioned AC/DC yet?
That's the first one that came to mind. I can't say it was better or worse, just different and I enjoy them both.

I'm gonna argue some Metallica points here made by other members:

"Metallica - after the Black album when "Metallica" left and the other group came in to do all of the suck that has been the post-Black catalog"
-Yeah, because selling 40+ million records (NOT including any back catalog album sales) between 1996 and today has really sucked.

"Metallica when Dave Mustaine left and was replaced by Kirk Hammet... I guess we will never know how different their music be but I have a feeling that Mustaine would have basically dictated a lot of the musical direction because for some reason he seems to be the one that has the balls to put Lars in his place when needed."
I don't think they would be nearly as successful. Mustaine has his style, and we've seen that with Megadeth, and it's great, but it's not Metallica. They are two different animals. You can draw a straight light to Metallica's success because of Lars. He's a principle songwriter, and driving force behind the business end of the band. If Dave stayed with them, and smacked Lars's hand outta the cookie jar, it's entirely possible the band might not have ever achieved the level of success it's enjoyed the last 40+ years. Thankfully we'll never know.
 
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Ozzy's music was never the same after Randy died. And that was a case where "not the same" means worse because of the complete loss of what their sound was.
Van Halen is an obvious "worse" for me without Roth, but TBH, they were already going in that direction.
 
Living Dead Drummer said:
Has no one mentioned AC/DC yet?
That's the first one that came to mind. I can't say it was better or worse, just different and I enjoy them both.
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I like Bon Scott's vocals more but I think BiB is the band's best album, even though nothing they did after that interests me at all.
 
Matt Suda said:
Lots of choices for both…

I’ll go with a twofer: RHCP got better when Chad Smith joined and have always been worse when John Frusciante leaves.

I also never liked Incubus after Dirk Lance left. Not sure how much that had to do with him, though.
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totally true re: RHCP!!!! Again, I don't dislike the Jack Irons stuff....and don't know much about them after BSSM as I felt they caught "Metallica" syndrome after that album
 
I'm glad someone else brought up Fleetwood Mac. They were the first band that came to mind for me. I think the change was definitely for the good, but I know that's a matter of opinion, but I don't believe they would have become nearly as successful.

There's no question they radically changed, though.

And of course there's Rush.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
Better:

I may be in the minority, but I think Rainbow got better with Joe Lyn Turner on vocals. Not to knock Dio or Graham Bonnet, but Joe just seemed to fit more like a glove.
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I agree with this also because Dio's solo stuff was better than any Rainbow stuff. The Joe Lynn Turner was the singer when I first discovered the mas well

DrumEatDrum said:
I know I'm in the minority, but I think Sammy Hagar replacing David Lee Roth gave Van Halem more depth, more emotion, and not just a party band singing about beer and chicks (although Sammy did plenty of that too).
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agree...but after 5150, they started to get stale even with Sammi...
DrumEatDrum said:
Worse


Scott Rockenfield leaving Queensryche. Chris Degarmo's leaving torpedoed the band, but most fans forget, that their career sank before Degarmo left the band. Watching Geoff Tate and the band split was hard. But they hadn't been relative in a long while. The new "Rising West" lineup did bring something back. Some new energy, and some hope maybe they could turn it around. But once Scott left, now it's just 2/5 of the original band. And while I do like some of the new songs, seeing them live was, well, weird. Some cool moments, but it was also like seeing a cover band. I can't stomach it.
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totally...the demise of Queesnryche was one of the first big "oh, things I love don't stick around forever" moments as a youngster. Hard to take. Promised Land was the lat one I could take

DrumEatDrum said:
Kevin Moore leaving Dream Theater. He took so much songwriting with him. I think they should have kept Derek Sherinian, who could at least play the parts and brought a lot of feel to his own parts. But no, they had to kick him out and bring in the guy who completely ruined the band, Jordan Rudess. Sure Jordan can technically play rings around Derek. His speed and proficently is unmatched. But adding a bunch of speed and technical skills killed off any sense of songwriting.
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yep...was gonna mention this as well....Falling Into Infinity was the last album by them I could stand

and as a side note, I was around for the beginnings of all of the Big # Prog Metal bands (and also for Watchtower), and it is funny that in the end, the least popular one - Fates Warning - lasted the longest as far as writing great music.

AND, they could have a whole essay written on the quality of substance with the entrance and exit of members for sure!! I love Joe DiBiase, and met him a couple of times...super nice guy, but Joey Vera brought a level of baass playing to FW that really kicked them in gear.

Vera is #3 on my list of bass gods behind Geddy and Steve Harris, so I might be a bit biased...

AND, AND... this also reminded me of Anthrax....I thought the got better with the addition of John Bush...as much as I love Belladonna, I think Bush should have been the vocalist for them all the time....but then we would not have had Armored Saint, who is a legendary band in my world of music...
 
bud7h4 said:
Ozzy's music was never the same after Randy died. And that was a case where "not the same" means worse because of the complete loss of what their sound was.
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true, true, true....Bark and Ultimate Sin grew on me for sure, but there was a gritty, haunting, soulfull vibe that Blizzard and Diary had...

bud7h4 said:
Van Halen is an obvious "worse" for me without Roth, but TBH, they were already going in that direction.
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while I agree with all of the DLR-Hagar evolution, I also feel that Roth era Van Halen had something no other band had, or has had...a (tounge in cheek/schmaltzy) prty vibe, with great, great playing...again, a vibe that has been unachievable since then, like the Rhoads era Ozzy

Living Dead Drummer said:
Has no one mentioned AC/DC yet?
That's the first one that came to mind. I can't say it was better or worse, just different and I enjoy them both.
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agreed. I first got into AC/DC when Back In Black came out, and found out about Bon Scott a little after, only after people told me that it was a different singer on the previous albums. I would have not been able to tell the difference at that point as a noob, and a young listener.

Living Dead Drummer said:
I'm gonna argue some Metallica points here made by other members:

"Metallica - after the Black album when "Metallica" left and the other group came in to do all of the suck that has been the post-Black catalog"
-Yeah, because selling 40+ million records (NOT including any back catalog album sales) between 1996 and today has really sucked.
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I will counter-point, or maybe further explain my stance - by saying that my personal definition of "good music" and "success" has nothing to do with money made or album sales. I know I am in the minority in this mind set, but that never even enters my mind when I am making my personal definitions of success.


gonna say that this is a topic I wish we could all be together live to discuss!! Would be cool to see the interaction live....
 
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