Well, I have Classic Maples now.

Soupy

Silver Member
My replacement shells arrived. Well, two weeks ago, actually, but I've been out of town some, and the kids have been sick, and I haven't had much time with them yet. The finish is great this time around. No complaints there. And even with only preliminary tuning they sound good, though the rack tom was a bit of a pain to tune, didn't pitch up from finger tight very evenly, needed a bit of fiddling.

Let's see if the photos work. What we've got here is a 16x20 bass, 9x12 rack, and 14x16 floor, with an Acrolite snare.
 

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Soupy

Silver Member
Unfortunately I do have one slight issue. The bass hoops don't fit the Remo Emperor heads I got. The hoops appear to be undersized, and the wood hoop ends up resting on the edge of the mylar head itself, and not on the metal collar of the head. I'm not the only person with this issue, unfortunately: zambizzi and Loopagator ran into it as well, as discussed in this thread: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48743

Scroll down to the 12th post and take a gander at Loopagator's little graphic. I have the exact same problem. The hoops don't rest flush on the 20" Smooth White Emperor Bass heads I have. Took the hoops back into my local music store and pulled an Evans head off the shelf, an EQ2, and it fit the same way.

Talked to the guys in the shop, who called Ludwig and got them to send me a new pair of hoops. Got those in today, and I've got the same problem with the replacements. Going to talk with the store some time next week.

The Ludwig heads work fine, mind you. With the Remo, you end up with a gap between the hoop and the collar on the head. And yeah, when I was trying it out, the drum wasn't tuning up right with the hoops on the Remo heads, sounded dead and flat. Tunes great with the Ludwig heads though. Have it running wide open right now.

The gap between head collar and hoop is pretty plainly visible.
 

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sticks4drums

Guest
They have been making drums for over 100 years and still don't know how big a hoop should be?
 

Boom

Silver Member
I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems with your ludwig's, Soupy. I know you were waiting for them for quite some time. Personally, I think that problem you (and others) are having is ridiculous. It isn't like the dimensions of all of those other heads have recently changed. I've never even heard of this problem from another manufacturer.

I can't wait to hear the spin of the pro Ludwig guys (not picking a fight guys). What is going on over there at Ludwig. That ship is sinking fast.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
Man, I wish I could pretend to have a witty explanation. At least the bass sounds great, even with the stock heads ringing wide open. Lot of sound from that little 20 incher.

Fundamentally, this isn't a quality control or craftsmanship issue. This is how they designed the hoops? Do I laugh or cry.

At least playing the drums has been a great distraction from stupid stuff like this. ;)

Also, the lighting in my basement stinks and I'm already thinking about setting up some spotlights somewhere to make everything look even cooler. But then I might need fog machines, lasers, a backing band.... could get complicated.
 

Stixnergard2

Senior Member
Great looking kit and after reading your comment regarding the bass drum hoops, I went down and looked at the hoops on my legacy kit. I'm using a Remo PS3 on the batter and the hoop doesn't on the collar 100% either,. I never even noticed it and have been enjoying the kit for 8 months. The kick sounds great and tunes up no problem, so it's probably not a big deal.
BTW- good choice on the wrap! LOL
 

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MikeM

Platinum Member
I had the same issue with the hoops on my '95 Ludwig but never considered that it was affecting the sound. But then again, the whole reason I don't have that Ludwig anymore is that the kick sound never turned me on. Unfortunately, I didn't put two and two together at the time and have the inner hoop surfaces modified to accommodate non-Ludwig heads. I think that's all it would've taken. Might work in your case, too.

Still... they're major players in the drum mfr biz? Say what you want about DW (and there isn't much bad one can say about them), but John Good is intimately involved with the details of design and day to day operations of a drum factory. That's the kind of guy Ludwig hasn't had in several generations now and it shows. They badly need a guy like that. Hell, I'd do it.
 

areFish

Silver Member
The kit looks great, congrats! Have you rested a stock kick head on one you bought to see what differences there may be? Also try setting both on a flat surface, collar down, and see if your replacement head stands taller from collar to striking surface than the stock.
 

Toolate

Platinum Member
I would be curious to see how a bunch of bass drum heads compare as far as hoop diameters and overall height. The stock head is likely made by one of the big names (?) so maybe whoever makes the stocker makes an equivalent to the head you want?
 

Soupy

Silver Member
The Remo head is a lot taller than the Ludwig head. In fact, the more I look at it, the more it looks like a Remo problem. The head isn't pushed deeply enough into the metal collar. Two photos of the head follow, notice there's an odd shoulder on the outside, and on the inside view of the head, a large gap caused by that shoulder between the metal collar and the main shoulder of the head itself.
 

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sticks4drums

Guest
Maybe Ludwig is doing this now so you have to use their heads.
 

Bull

Gold Member
The Remo head is a lot taller than the Ludwig head..
I have had this issue. It's so much taller that the stock tension rods are too long when using Remo heads. I had to get shorter rods. When I tried to replace the stock Ludwig reso head on the drums,the rods that were perfect with the Remo WOULDN'T EVEN REACH THE LUGS!
I compared the new Remos to some older Remos I had sitting around. They were all the same. My buddy's Aquarians were similar to the Remos. Ludwig heads are extremely shallow.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Just PU a set of vintage Luds, 1966, and the bass drum hoop is undersized on it as well. I am using an Evans Emad on the batter. The hoop on the front Ludwig logo head fits fine. Yea Ludwig needs someone to whip that company into shape. What are they thinking?
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I had the exact same problem with bass hoops. Remo has equally poor QA and they tend not to sink the film deep enough into the glue, leaving the head sticking up, ensuring it doesn't seat well. Find the thread on here where I went as far as taking a router to the hoops...nothing worked. Carefully inspect every Remo head you buy, now that you have very picky drums. Both of my kicks sound like a million bucks, but I had to be very selective.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Maybe Ludwig is doing this now so you have to use their heads.
I doubt it very much,but even if it were true.,it would commiting corporate suicide. If it were true also,it would not be the first company in history to do so.Sonor and Premier in the late 50's and early 60's did so with their drums and drum heads,most nutoriously were Premier Everplay heads that would only fit their drums.

Back in the USA there were always problems with different drum companys/drum head companys heads not truly being universal in fit.Gretsch stands out here with their shells being oversized so much that some 60's round badge drums would only work with Gretsch powertone heads.

I have occasionally had problems with Remo heads not fitting properly,but not so with Evans and Aquarian,or Weathermaster.It may not so much be the hoops here....it may be the heads.I would also measure the diameter of the shell itself and the hoops,as well as the diameter of the head.

Steve B
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
I bought a fibreskin head for my 75 year old Leedy bass drum, and the head and hoops fit perfectly. I didn't expect anything else.
 
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