Weight comparison: Yamaha PHX to Craviotto

single-ply

Senior Member
Ok, I know the PHX is heavier, but how much heavier? Anyone have both. Mostly interested in the difference between the two bass drums. 20% heavier? 2x's heavier?

Back health is an issue. I have a Craviotto set, but am intrigued by the Yammies.

Thanks
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I don't have exact figures, but having handled both, I can tell you that the Yamaha is considerably heavier. The Craviotto hardware isn't exactly the lightest you can get, but the Yamaha is on a whole different level in terms of weight. Difference in shell weight will have an affect too, but hardware mass is the bigger element. Both are very well made instruments.

I don't see published weights for the Yamaha, but a request for that information from your supply source is probably a good idea.
 

Artstar

Platinum Member
Hi Singleply. There is a member here.. I will try to find his posts...., but he owned the two kits and had them side by side for quite some time. In the end, he chose the PHX over the Crav for the sound.

Will post his info when I find it.
 

Artstar

Platinum Member
Found him ! It was member Wuffb. Here was his post. http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1235552&postcount=9

I picked the PHX over the Craviotto for a couple of reasons . . .

1) While I love the single ply construction of the Craviotto, I am not sure how it will stand the test of time . . . I also have an original Yamaha Maple Custom set that I bought in 1993 and 20 years later . . . you would think it was brand new. Still play it out a lot.

2) Craviotto does not make an 8" shell and I love having an 8 and 10 on the rack. I actually spoke with Steve Maxwell and Johnny Craviotto about this last June in NYC and they just didn't think the single ply could stand the stress of an 8" drum.

3) I agree with another poster here that Yamaha doesn't have the latest fad of coolest finishes . . . but that being said, if you ask for a custom finish when you order a PHX, they will do it! Yamaha finishes are made to outlast the latest looks and stay classy for decades.

4) Not least of course, but the SOUND is INCREDIBLE on these drums . . . but you can't appreciate it in a store because there are usually all sorts of other sounds and interference going on . . . but get them in a studio and/or home or mic'd up at a gig . . . and HOLY S*** they come alive like no other drum I have EVER heard in my 35+ years of playing. They are warm, tympanic, responsive and pitch perfect . . . no overtones like my DW Collector's SSC kit. I think Yamaha's research here has paid off and the Hybrid shells sound better "to me" than single ply or single wood type shells. I think so many are figuring this out with combinations like Birch/Bubinga, Poplar/Maple, Maple/Mahogany etc.

5) I have found that using Remo Clear Ambassadors on the batter and Evan Level 360 Genera Resonance heads are simply a magical combination for these drums . . . and I have used others . . . coated and non-coated.

6) The bearing edges are ridiculously perfect . . . Craviotto now also offers varied edges like their "baseball bat" edge on the toms . . . Yamaha has been doing that PHX since the start of the series.

7) The YESS II wood thing is ugly, but it's purpose is to vibrate harmonically with the hybrid shell . . . all that being said . . . why Yamaha doesn't color match . . . I just don't understand. The new YESS III is more "mechanical" looking. . . Craviotto uses RIMS and other stuff and I don't like those holders . . . though many people do.

8) The PHX is now the only Yamaha drum kit still handmade by three master craftsman in Hamamatsu, Japan. Sakae is now marketing their own drums and look like they have some really good stuff . . . but haven't played them . . . since however, my Maple Customs were certainly made by Sakae . . . I am sure they are really good. The rest of Yamaha is being made in China . . . end of an era I believe.
 

zenghost

Senior Member
Interesting inquiry - I have a PHX kit on order and own a Crav kit.

RickP is a PHX owner and can likely provide some helpful insight.

My guess is the PHX will be somewhat heavier - those shells are THICK, but not intolerable. I was surprised at the relatively light weight of the Craviotto drums.

Yamaha PHX and Craviotto - apples to oranges in soooo many ways. Not saying someone can't prefer one or the other on sound alone, but my preferences in drums goes beyond just sound - there are so many great, but different sounding drums. Your criteria of weight is a perfect (and valid) example of looking at a parameter beyond just sound for drum selection.
 

Groov-E

Silver Member
Ok, I know the PHX is heavier, but how much heavier? Anyone have both. Mostly interested in the difference between the two bass drums. 20% heavier? 2x's heavier?

Back health is an issue. I have a Craviotto set, but am intrigued by the Yammies.

Thanks
If you want lightweight drums with a heavyweight sound go with c&c. In soft cases, I do bd, rack, ft and snare in one trip and hardware and throne on the second and last trip. I am always amazed.

Not answering your question though, am I ?
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
I would say that you have sizes on your side here with either choice. Both Craviotto and PHX drums are going to sound bigger than their equivalent ply shell diameters.

Crav/PHX 18" = Others' 20"-22"
Crav/PHX 20" = Others' 22-24" etc

There is an older Memphis Drum Shop video of Ben playing a 12/14/18 PHX kit in Textured Amber Sunburst
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25MGsdFDXQ )

...the kit sounds ridiculously huge, have a listen with good headphones. The first tuning there is high, lower tuning towards the end.

Another bop PHX kit here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvPo8gGfGbc
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
There is an older Memphis Drum Shop video of Ben playing a 12/14/18 PHX kit in Textured Amber Sunburst
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25MGsdFDXQ )

...the kit sounds ridiculously huge, have a listen with good headphones. The first tuning there is high, lower tuning towards the end.
Very nice sounding drums, & I've played PHXs myself. I like them, but it's a pity they've added low end to the (out of shot) bass drum mic on this video. I know how those drums sound, & they sound good, but the over modulation (= distortion) on the bass drum capture is a dead giveaway.
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
Very nice sounding drums, & I've played PHXs myself. I like them, but it's a pity they've added low end to the (out of shot) bass drum mic on this video. I know how those drums sound, & they sound good, but the over modulation (= distortion) on the bass drum capture is a dead giveaway.
Sorry Andy, but I have to disagree.
Audio is my profession...over modulation or distortion is not necessarily an indication that EQ has been added. Simply applying too much preamp gain/overloading the AD converter can easily do that - as can a host of other things, there are many variables. EQ is just one element of the gain stage path.
ALTHOUGH - I don't necessarily disagree that there might have been some EQ added to that recording. Memphis Drum Shop will not say how they record or process the drums...
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry Andy, but I have to disagree.
Audio is my profession...over modulation or distortion is not necessarily an indication that EQ has been added. Simply applying too much preamp gain/overloading the AD converter can easily do that - as can a host of other things, there are many variables. EQ is just one element of the gain stage path.
ALTHOUGH - I don't necessarily disagree that there might have been some EQ added to that recording. Memphis Drum Shop will not say how they record or process the drums...
I agree with you 100%. Adding too much on the bottom end is only one of many possible causes for that distortion, it's just that in my experience with drum videos, & especially Youtube's limited dynamic headroom, adding bottom end is by far the most likely cause. It's perfectly likely that the original recording didn't show any distortion, but it appears when uploaded to Youtube. Again, the most likely scenario IMHO. I'm also weighing what I'm hearing with my personal experience of these drums, & on the bass drum response, there's a disconnection between the two.

Sorry for the sideline. Bottom line is, they're fine drums. Andy likes them :)
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
I agree with you 100%. Adding too much on the bottom end is only one of many possible causes for that distortion, it's just that in my experience with drum videos, & especially Youtube's limited dynamic headroom, adding bottom end is by far the most likely cause. It's perfectly likely that the original recording didn't show any distortion, but it appears when uploaded to Youtube. Again, the most likely scenario IMHO. I'm also weighing what I'm hearing with my personal experience of these drums, & on the bass drum response, there's a disconnection between the two.

Sorry for the sideline. Bottom line is, they're fine drums. Andy likes them :)
Haha - and I also agree with you 100%. File compression and/or cheap limiters often do that with excessive low freq...and YouTube videos often do that, exactly as you say.

No amount of EQ can make a mid line drum kit sound like that though. Enhanced, maybe....but anyway.

I'm in a difficult place here myself, I am trying to decide between Craviotto, PHX, and Guru. I want a small really high end kit. Three shells. Either 12/14/18 or 12/14/20.

PHX in Natural in that second video I posted is one option. ($5400 US)
Craviotto Center Stage in 12/14/20 is second option ($3600 US)
Andy, a Guru kit to mix it up with these two? I prefer normal hoops to wood hoops.
I am not in a rush.

Neal
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I'm in a difficult place here myself, I am trying to decide between Craviotto, PHX, and Guru. I want a small really high end kit. Three shells. Either 12/14/18 or 12/14/20.
Neal
A difficult place indeed. Three great kits, but completely different animals. I'd need to understand exactly what you're trying to achieve and a detailed description of the anticipated playing circumstances. From there, I can advise you. I'll send you a PM to take this away from this thread :)
 

RickP

Gold Member
Interesting inquiry - I have a PHX kit on order and own a Crav kit.

RickP is a PHX owner and can likely provide some helpful insight.

My guess is the PHX will be somewhat heavier - those shells are THICK, but not intolerable. I was surprised at the relatively light weight of the Craviotto drums.

Yamaha PHX and Craviotto - apples to oranges in soooo many ways. Not saying someone can't prefer one or the other on sound alone, but my preferences in drums goes beyond just sound - there are so many great, but different sounding drums. Your criteria of weight is a perfect (and valid) example of looking at a parameter beyond just sound for drum selection.

Zenghost is correct , I own a PHX kit. My kit is a 20/12/14 and I have a Noble and Cooley Horizon series kit in the same sizes. The only drum in the set where I really notice a weight difference is the bass drum. The PHX bass drum is noticeably heavier but it is not the great massive weight that people love to make these out as. I have played pretty much any high end drum you can think of and the PHX are truly special drums. The bass drums are particularly outstanding. They sound much bigger than you would think. My 20 X 16 bass drum had more resonance and volume than the 24 X 15 Yamaha Club Custom bass drum I previously owned.
 
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