vintage Rogers on the gig and edge question

eamesuser

Silver Member
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Was hoping folks on here that were drum builders and or have had bearing edges done could chime in.

1966/67 20 12 14 Had not played these out in quite a while,it seems like the 20 14 make it just that much easier set up in tight spaces

I need a couple of other things for it,I would love to have the swivo cymbal top holder,I have the rod and some times mount a splash on it but would love to able to mount my ride on it at the right amount of tilt.Also one of the lugs has a crack,the part that the screw goes into.



My big dilemma is the bearing edges,the kit is all original no mods X holes etc,the wrap is evenly faded and has a cream/greenish tint.I found it at a garage sale and got some extras with it that I sold off so the kit was basically free.If I redo the edges I guess I would devalue the kit a bit,but I don't plan on selling,and I still would make money if I did,but I don't have any idea how much I would be devaluing it by doing so,any guesses?



The problem with the edges is on the batter side of the 12 has a dip in the edge that runs about the span of one lug to the next,it is a crescent shaped dip that at it's lowest at the center is at least a quarter inch deep,the drum still sounds good,but I have to tune it a little choked to keep from getting sour overtones,although I don't have to tune it choked with a pinstripe on it.



The BD reso side has the same kind of dip in the edge, longer dip but not as deep and tuning does not seem to be as much of an issue.If the kit was yours what would you all do?
 

single-ply

Senior Member
If it were my set and by redoing the edges would make it sound better, I'd do it. That's exactly what I did with my otherwise perfect '66 Super Classic set. Edges were pretty bad and it sounded flat and lifeless. I sent to it to Precision Drum with the instructions to take off as little as possible in order to get flat edges with original factory edges on them. They sound awesome now.

Did I devalue them? Probably to some buyer who, IMHO, has misplaced priorities. In my mind, a beautiful drum set that sounds like crap is worthless. Mine now still look exactly the same as before, but now actually sound good.

Others here will say to not touch them; that is just the vintage 'mojo'. I disagree, but ultimately you'll have to make that decision yourself.

Had I not had my drum's edges reworked, I would've sold them by now.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
I'm not in to vintage drums, but there are lots of crazy vintage guys out there willing to spend a good amount of money on a clean, original set. Your set is both of those things so it should net some pretty good money on the used market. Since vintage guys can be a bit crazy, I wouldn't touch the edges. Let the next buyer deal with the issue. Who knows, they may love the sound and love that they are all original.

If it were my kit, I would keep it how it is and sell for top dollar.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I do whatever is necessary to my vintage drums to make them fit my personal playing needs.
If I decide that the edge has to be recut then I have it cut. If I decide that I want to mount something then I mount it. If I want to change a piece of hardware to something that I like better than what was stock then I change it. I play my vintage drums. No museum displays in my studio or on my stage.
Nice Rogers kit by the way :)
 

Lennytoons

Senior Member
Well, I suppose it depends on whether or not you want to play them or sell them. You can sell them as is and a purist will stick them in a corner and remember the good old days and occasionally play a dead, flat kit. Or, you can fix the bearing edges, bring them to life and wow millions! You decide.
 

JohnPloughman

Silver Member
I am into vintage drums.... and do not mess with edges unless it is absolutely necessary. I have three Rogers sets from the 60s and wouldn't touch their edges.

You have a spot on one edge on one drum.
This sounds more like the kind of witchcraft a good wood crafter could do without recutting the entire kit. You fix an edge with epoxy permanently, resurface that portion of the edge, and leave the balance of the set untouched. This is something that would keep the overall value of the set, while fixing your issue. Unless I miss-read your post... you have one issue on one drum.

The BD doesn't seem to be as much of a problem, but you could have both repaired. It would preserve the set.

Or ... risk someone overcutting and ruining them. If you are going to recut one, you probably should recut all.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
The key here is to take your time and decide. I never do any mods to one of my vintage drums without slow and careful consideration.
 

kevinmac

Senior Member
I would at least install the swivomatic tom holder. The bass drum and tom already have the female ends. You need the one with the long rod end that goes into tje bass drum, since your bass drum is 20". Link below for reference.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1972-VINTAGE-ROGERS-SWIVO-MATIC-SHORT-HEXAGONAL-ARM-2-SMALL-BOLTS-MADE-IN-USA-/182099393647?hash=item2a65f83c6f

Then I would replace that swivomatic bass drum cymbal holder to the Rogers clamp style, think the mounting to the bass drum is the same foot print. Then get the L rod style bass drum cymbal holder

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rogers-Swivomatic-Cymbal-L-Arm-REPRODUCTION-Hardware-Stand-/161983083988?hash=item25b6f1b5d4:g:mSwAAOSwll1Wx4eT
 

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opentune

Platinum Member
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The problem with the edges is on the batter side of the 12 has a dip in the edge that runs about the span of one lug to the next,it is a crescent shaped dip that at it's lowest at the center is at least a quarter inch deep,the drum still sounds good,but I have to tune it a little choked to keep from getting sour overtones,although I don't have to tune it choked with a pinstripe on it.
1. turn that tom over and use as the reso edge, which is often tuned higher anyway. You have the tom in a snare stand, and who cares if its upside down.
Problem solved.

2. "if kit was mine what I'd do?" I'd play that mofo. Awesome looking kit. Congrats on a great find.
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
Why would a vintage set with edges that were buggered from the factory be more valuable than fixing them properly?
 

eamesuser

Silver Member
Thanks to all for the replies,couple of questions concerning them,

@Ploughman,if you look at the kick on the left you will see a rod going into the BD,this rod has a t on the end with a threaded top,is there a swivo cymbal top/holder that will screw/thread on there or would I have to buy a whole new piece and or change the mount on the kick to a knobby?

I love the kit and would rather keep them if I can get them sounding and tuning well more easily.

I am giving serious thought to the build up of the edges in question,because the rest of the edge on each drum looks pretty good,and the dips,esp on the 12 are so deep I would assume you would have to take 3/4 of an inch of the depth on that side minimum.As far as the dips in the edges go you can definitley feel and see how the head is not sitting level on it and on the 12 when that part of the head is tuned to the same pitch as the rest of the head you can see where the rim is not level.

I don't know a ton about edges and who I could get to re do them,and if any pro repair shops would do a build up,or if they would just say all we will do is recut.I called a guy that was recommended and he did not want to hear the specifics concerning this particular situation or discuss it.Could you all recommend someone that I can call and discuss this with?
 

single-ply

Senior Member
In my first post, I said I'd have the edges recut. My opinion that having the edges redone to make the drums sound up to their potential stands.

However, I may have not read your original post carefully enough about the depth of the depression on the 12" tom.

I agree with another poster that it might be best to try to build up the edge in that spot first. A good wood epoxy could accomplish that. when dry you would carefully sand down to match adjacent areas.

So, IMO, fix the edges, but do as little as possible to accomplish the goal.
 

JohnPloughman

Silver Member
Go to Drumarchive.com and download the 1964 Rogers catalog.

On page 53, top left corner you will find listed part number 332R--18" Hex Cymbal Rod. In the top right corner, you will see part number 320R--Swivomatic Cymbal Tilter. These are the parts you have.

To achieve the same as in the pictures I posted.... you can do this two ways...... There is a hex cymbal extension rod 9" that will screw onto the cymbal stem of your Swivomatic Tilter, then mount a swivomatic Tilter to the top of that. You can find a picture of this on Page 5 of the 1973 parts and accessories catalog... also at Drum Archive.

Or, the part in the center of that page.... 325R--Extension Cymbal Arm, which basically is a tilter with a stem that is almost 9" long. I have two of this particular set up, both with tilters at the top. This makes for a fully articulated assembly with infinitely possible adjustment.
This is a very stable set up, and in my opinion, far better than a knobby mount. All three of my Rogers Swingtime configured sets have this set up.

 

Vintage Old School

Gold Member
1. turn that tom over and use as the reso edge, which is often tuned higher anyway. You have the tom in a snare stand, and who cares if its upside down.
Problem solved.
This! This is your happy medium if you ever do ultimately sell the kit to a purist collector. You can play it with no fear of devaluing the drum.

Another option is to locate another matching Rogers 12" tom. Whichever of the two is in better condition set it aside in storage and send the
other one to have its bearing edges recut the way you want them.

Otherwise, if you're going to be more satisfied having all the bearing edges redone, then go for it. The worst that can happen is you end up
selling them down the road to someone who intends to play them rather than add them to a collection.
 

eamesuser

Silver Member
Thanks for the replies everyone.

@Ploughman,yes I have the 332 r,I do not have the 320R--Swivomatic Cymbal Tilter, I just put a spacer and felt and plastic screw/sleeve on top of the 332 r.
So if I have my head wrapped around this correctly, I can just add 320 r tilter by threading or on tightening it down with a drum key? (from what I am seeing from the catalogue pics?)
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Why would a vintage set with edges that were buggered from the factory be more valuable than fixing them properly?
Because vintage drum guys are weird.

As others have said - if you keep and play them - re cut.

If you sell them - sell them the way they are.
 

JohnPloughman

Silver Member
The Swivomatic tilter will slip over the stem threads on your 18" Cymbal Rod. The set screw will tighten it down. If you use a 9" Cymbal Rod Extension, this piece screws onto the tilter stem. You can also put a tilter on top of that piece to complete the set up.

A complete setup can run a person into some money. 200-250 for the three or four pieces. Swivomatic pieces tend to be expensive.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I'd also say if you want to keep them and play them, I'd look into having them repaired so they'll tune up easier. Keeping things original is great if everything functions well but when a flaw in construction (whether it's a mistake or due to age) is detrimental to the performance I think something needs to be done.

I've had Precision Drum re-cut edges on a couple of my kits and they've always done great work. I'd take some photos of your drums and ask Precision for their opinion on what they could do, how much depth you'd lose, etc.
 
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