Video of Show Last Month

MikeM

Platinum Member
I just discovered this today on YouTube from a show we did a month or two ago. There's just two songs and it's pretty rough in a few spots (both guitar and drumming mistakes). The first one is still under construction. We're getting ready to record it (and a few others) in June, so we thought we'd get it into our live set to force us to finish it before then. It isn't there yet, but it's getting close.

It goes into another song at around 4 minutes, which I like call our Wipe Out rip-off because it has constant tom 16ths running through the whole song. It's one of our older songs and we don't plan to re-record it, but it's still fun to play ... it's one of our hits, man!

There are some obvious mistakes and rushing in there. We've starting using a click at practice, which we will switch off just before hitting the record button.

Apologies for the lousy sound quality ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX39VHpvBlA
 

aydee

Platinum Member
...

Kickass grooving, Mike. Not really my kind of music but you can play!! Great pocket!

...
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
I think I've heard that second one before in my music travels of some type. Have you previously recorded it on any distribution? At any rate, I like that second one. First one sounds like it needs a bit of work to separate parts, and solidify the feel, but it sounds like you're kinda already aware, and of course, I mean no dis-respect. It could also be the bad sound quality that put me off on the first a bit, maybe I couldn't hear some of it.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Not hearing any mistakes, Mike. You and the guitarist seem to have created an alternate musical universe with its own form and logic, so I'm not about to judge what's supposed to happen and what isn't. I just went along for the ride - and wondered if you were wearing ear protection. Gettin old, I guess.

Nice to see a duo working effectively. The crowd's right into you. That's the future, as Bob Fripp said - "small intelligent units". Demonic, brain-bending, yet accurate drumming from you as usual - you play as though you could bench press a SUV :)
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
...

Kickass grooving, Mike. Not really my kind of music but you can play!! Great pocket!

...
Thanks, Abe. I like the pocket in a few places myself (others not so much.. :)

I think I've heard that second one before in my music travels of some type. Have you previously recorded it on any distribution? At any rate, I like that second one. First one sounds like it needs a bit of work to separate parts, and solidify the feel, but it sounds like you're kinda already aware, and of course, I mean no dis-respect. It could also be the bad sound quality that put me off on the first a bit, maybe I couldn't hear some of it.
I think the second one can be linked to from my signature from another show. It happened to be on this one, but I think it's a more interesting version anyway.

I agree with you on the groove of the first. It's pretty distressing to hear the intro up into the first chorus. It starts to settle out after that. The problem for me on that one is that the guitar phrasing poses so many attractive possibilities that I've had really tough time settling on something interesting that works - I've found a bunch of ideas that don't work - many of which are in this video - but I know there are some good opportunities to be had cos I occasionally stumble into them or otherwise get flashes.

After watching this a few times, I think I'll lift the groove from the second and third verses (the smoother portions) and use them as a basis for the whole song, which has been giving me fits forever. I never tried that particular beat before this show and remember really liking it though I couldn't remember what it was- it was lost in the moment. I'm really stoked and grateful that someone recorded this and posted it!
Not hearing any mistakes, Mike. You and the guitarist seem to have created an alternate musical universe with its own form and logic, so I'm not about to judge what's supposed to happen and what isn't. I just went along for the ride - and wondered if you were wearing ear protection. Gettin old, I guess.

Nice to see a duo working effectively. The crowd's right into you. That's the future, as Bob Fripp said - "small intelligent units". Demonic, brain-bending, yet accurate drumming from you as usual - you play as though you could bench press a SUV :)
Thanks, Grea, but those areas where it's sounding like it has its own form and logic? Those are the mistakes! It's supposed to follow fairly standard forms :-/ I'll post it again after we record it and hopefully it'll sound less out there.

Sometimes I wear those Hear-Os or whatever those $15 GC jobs are. They work pretty good because they pass a more even frequency spectrum than the foam ones, though they don't offer as much attenuation as foam. Lately, I've been forgetting anyway. I know - I'm a bad person.

I don't know about bench pressing an SUV. Drumming's my only exercise, tbh, and it does get tiring at this advanced age. I still like hitting on the harder side of things though. Not sure why that is ... it's fun I guess, and it's something I enjoy seeing other drummers do (think young Bozzio). And it seems right for this kind of music.
 
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Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Mike, I too get along on the cheaper route of attenuating hearing protection. The best one I've found, by far, is the Vaters.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/vater-earplugs?src=3WWRWXGP

That's them, though I bet you can find em cheaper. I tried a few of the hear-o versions that look like these, and they did not work nearly as good at passing sound accurately but with lower volume. With the vaters, I would literally sometimes forget they are in because I didn't have a hard time hearing people talking between songs and have to take them out. Difference was, no ringing in my ears afterwards.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Wow - you're some sort of powerhouse Mike, that's for sure. Major kudos to you just on the stamina front alone! I like the second number best too. I thought your choice of tom to snare groove on that struck a perfect balance of pace, urgency, & power. Juxtapositions beautifully with the breakout into the chorus groove too.

As with others here, not my kind of stuff by a long way, but it works for sure. I'd take about 20 seconds of the vocal before giving in to a overwhelming urge to shoot him with a bazooka ;) But that's just me, the "set in his ways" old fart that is Andy :( The other half of me greatly admires the balls necessary to put yourself out there with something that is different. I enjoyed that Mike - it challenged me :)
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
... it does get tiring at this advanced age. I still like hitting on the harder side of things though. Not sure why that is ... it's fun I guess, and it's something I enjoy seeing other drummers do (think young Bozzio). And it seems right for this kind of music.
Ha - I can imagine it being a workout. I saw a Terry B with Uncle Frank around the time of Bongo Fury's release and I fully understand anyone being inspired by him. Hugely talented.

I did notice a spot where the established patterns lost a little consistency but, given the math-style squaring off you do (which I relate to because I often do that too) it just came across as one of the fluid moments when you break out a little. I think you're a tough judge on the groove at the start - or maybe I have cloth ears because I didn't have a problem?
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Mike, I too get along on the cheaper route of attenuating hearing protection. The best one I've found, by far, is the Vaters.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/vater-earplugs?src=3WWRWXGP
Thanks for the tip, Doc, I'll check those out.

Wow - you're some sort of powerhouse Mike, that's for sure. Major kudos to you just on the stamina front alone! I like the second number best too. I thought your choice of tom to snare groove on that struck a perfect balance of pace, urgency, & power. Juxtapositions beautifully with the breakout into the chorus groove too.

As with others here, not my kind of stuff by a long way, but it works for sure. I'd take about 20 seconds of the vocal before giving in to a overwhelming urge to shoot him with a bazooka ;) But that's just me, the "set in his ways" old fart that is Andy :( The other half of me greatly admires the balls necessary to put yourself out there with something that is different. I enjoyed that Mike - it challenged me :)
Thanks Andy. I'm glad you like the tom / snare thing. I'm much more proud of how that sits and creates a familiar and repeating pattern (with variations) than I am about the fact that it's a big silly smear of 16th notes. I totally get where you coming from on the vocal angle, too. Not everyone's cup of tea for sure. Good thing we're not trying to make any money with this! :) Pretty funny about the bazooka bit! Ha ha!

Ha - I can imagine it being a workout. I saw a Terry B with Uncle Frank around the time of Bongo Fury's release and I fully understand anyone being inspired by him. Hugely talented.

I did notice a spot where the established patterns lost a little consistency but, given the math-style squaring off you do (which I relate to because I often do that too) it just came across as one of the fluid moments when you break out a little. I think you're a tough judge on the groove at the start - or maybe I have cloth ears because I didn't have a problem?
I think I'm being a tough judge on the start of that groove because I think it grooves stronger further in. There's also a lot of rushing going on, which seems to happen more when I'm not sure what I'm doing, as is the case with this song. A little more confidence in the parts I'm playing and I expect it to settle down into something more comfortable. That's the hope, anyway, as we finish up the writing of this one. The second song, on the other hand, can do whatever the hell it wants - I'm just trying to hang on and survive it most of the time. It's in our set less and less these days and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm using the old age excuse to avoid it!

I'm definitely jealous that you got to see TB with Frank. That must've been amazing! I saw TB live only once with Jeff Beck in '89 or '90 (and two clinics, which aren't the same thing) and my jaw was on the floor the whole freakin' set. I had no idea he played that way, and had never seen anyone play like that. He had so much power it was ridiculous and made me laugh hysterically, so naturally, I wanted to execute that way, too - that became the model for me on how to mow 'em over. Sure, not appropriate for all things (I don't do that in my electronic band), but for this ... why not? ;-)
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I gotta give you a lot of credit Mike. I wouldn't have the faintest idea of what to play behind that guy. I thought you really carried the piece. The guitar dude just made such a wall of sound with not much space to craft anything around. I have a natural aversion to guitar/drum duo's in the first place, I really need a bass guitar, but like I said, I gotta give you a lot of credit for making the song intelligible.

I'm sorry if I am less than positive about your guitarist. But your drumming is such a force to be reckoned with. I could not do that kind of music with the conviction you have. No room for keeping a "normal" type of beat in that scenario, it seems like lead drums are the only way to approach it.

You play with such raw energy. Myself, I wouldn't want to work that hard, but I gotta give you major props for making that song work. I don't think I could have followed it without your drum part.
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
you well know how I feel about this band and your playing Mike........

just great stuff
killer band
killer drumming

lets get that record out!!!!!
 

poika

Silver Member
I have to say I really like this.. a lot! This is exactly the type of material that I enjoy playing - all out, in your face, heavy ass drumming and guitar playing.

Nice one!! 100% support from me!
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I gotta give you a lot of credit Mike. I wouldn't have the faintest idea of what to play behind that guy. I thought you really carried the piece. The guitar dude just made such a wall of sound with not much space to craft anything around. I have a natural aversion to guitar/drum duo's in the first place, I really need a bass guitar, but like I said, I gotta give you a lot of credit for making the song intelligible.

I'm sorry if I am less than positive about your guitarist. But your drumming is such a force to be reckoned with. I could not do that kind of music with the conviction you have. No room for keeping a "normal" type of beat in that scenario, it seems like lead drums are the only way to approach it.

You play with such raw energy. Myself, I wouldn't want to work that hard, but I gotta give you major props for making that song work. I don't think I could have followed it without your drum part.
Thanks for the drumming props, Larry. I very much get what you're saying about the guitar player - that he's a wall of sound that doesn't leave much space, if any. But that's also the biggest reason it works as a two-piece. If he were to go into any kind of solo, the bottom would drop out and it wouldn't work. Not only does he never play anything resembling a solo but he's actually not capable of soloing to begin with. It's not a part of playing he's ever learned to do or been interested in. He's the kind of player that sits on his couch with his acoustic, and just composes these things. There definitely isn't anything standard about how he plays and he comes up with a lot of interesting time signatures and patterns without having the first clue that that's what he's doing. I don't know why I find that approach so attractive, but I do. Also, not having a bass player allows me (forces me even) to fill in the holes. Again, going back to Bozzio, Beck and Hymas (on the Guitar Shop record), there was no bass player and Bozzio remarked on the same thing; that it forced his parts into a more prominent role.

We've had bass players before and the results have always been mixed, but I've been keeping an eye out for another one anyway.
you well know how I feel about this band and your playing Mike........

just great stuff
killer band
killer drumming

lets get that record out!!!!!
Thanks again, Anthony! Tad Doyle will be at the controls in June when we record this, so I'm pretty sure it'll sound HUGE.
I have to say I really like this.. a lot! This is exactly the type of material that I enjoy playing - all out, in your face, heavy ass drumming and guitar playing.

Nice one!! 100% support from me!
Thanks, poika! I knew there were a bunch of us around here!
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Mike, I get where you're coming from re: lack of bass player. I'm not even sure a bass player would work in that setup. A bass player needs a structure to hang onto, or needs to create one. Right now, you are the structure, & a lack of bass actually adds urgency & grit for me. A bass part could only mirror your playing, or melt into the background for me. In either case, I think it would serve to confuse. In the studio, the lack of apparent bottom end can be more than made up for in the production, & that's without detracting from the grit & drive.

A good old school set of Moog pedals might be a cool addition though, especially live :)

As I said in my earlier post, this material challenges me. Certainly a part love part hate deal. Actually, that's the same mix of feelings I have about my own band, but that's another story. I think the vocal stuff will probably make a lot more sense in a studio version. I'm looking forward to that :)
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Dang!

I've always been a fan of your heavy hitting style, but I don't think I realized how much funky groove you have going on as well.

Some nice Bonham inspired licks there too!

But I was thinking, uh, wheres the bass player? lol...
 

BeethroDM

Member
Wow, great stuff! Interesting sound and compositions, and your drumming looks and sounds real good in that context.

I'm sure that this duo is a conscious choice, but personally I would have liked to hear some bass in there too - have you tried playing this stuff with a bass player and if yes, did it not sound the way you wanted?
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Dang!

I've always been a fan of your heavy hitting style, but I don't think I realized how much funky groove you have going on as well.

Some nice Bonham inspired licks there too!

But I was thinking, uh, wheres the bass player? lol...
Thanks, Ian! I've honestly never thought of my playing as funky, but I guess you're right; if I get this thing nailed right, it should have a tight funk about it. Funny thing about my relationship with funk - there's so much about the most of today's alt-funk players that I don't like that I end up running away from whole idea. It's a knee-jerk response that throws the baby out with the bath water and I should keep in mind the likes of Bonham, Chris Dave, et al, and my various electronic influences when thinking of playing with funk instead of worrying about how square it can come off.
Wow, great stuff! Interesting sound and compositions, and your drumming looks and sounds real good in that context.

I'm sure that this duo is a conscious choice, but personally I would have liked to hear some bass in there too - have you tried playing this stuff with a bass player and if yes, did it not sound the way you wanted?
Thanks for that!

A little more on the bass player issue ... when Trent (the other guy in the vid) placed his add to start a band, he was looking for both drums and bass. He and I hit it off right away on personal level (we're pretty much best friends at this point - 14 years later), and on a musical level, I was super impressed at the level of complexity, organization, smoothness, and originality of his material. And he'd never heard his songs played with a drummer before, so he was pretty stoked about that. We worked through his stockpile of songs until we had them nailed down before looking for a bass player, but we started getting opportunities to play shows before finding one, so we just thought: screw it, let's go play shows as a two-piece. It worked surprisingly well and we got a lot of encouraging feedback from the people that saw us.

So that's how we got rolling as a two-piece. When we went to record our first batch of songs, Trent added all the bass parts and it sounded really good so we proved to ourselves that as much as we would like a bass player, we didn't really need one.

After that first recording, we went through 3 different bass players over the next several years, but in each case, having that additional member disrupted our method of working together so new material became much harder to work on.

Also, Trent never went through a shedding phase and never learned any theory or how to just improvise, so for a lot of players, that's deal-breaker. But I don't see that as a bad thing since I really like the material he comes up with, and I'll take a prolific writer light on chops over a non-writing shredder any day.

The last bass player we had was pretty good (vid in my signature has him playing), but our personal interactions were strained and he was wanting to get really math-y with the new material, and neither one of us had any interest in alternating odd-time bars just because. I like playing odd time stuff as much as anyone but I like playing grooves even better. If I can have both I'm over the moon. But I really can't handle the idea of sacrificing the groove or the song just to demonstrate odd meter capability.

So, two-piece it is ... for now.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Damn.... I wish I could have half of your energy. Sounds great!
Good playing man. You two seem locked in pretty good. I dig your aggressive style.
Thanks a lot, fella's!

I was playing along today to Turning Tables by Adele, which doesn't have a drum track, thinking how cool it would be to post a play-along to that. I still play like me on it (or me playing like Chris Dave as much as I'm able!), but it isn't that over-the-top bombast.
 
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