unusual notation

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
Thank you Eddy for your answer.

First time I had in my hands Podemski´s was in 1972, that is 46 years ago. Then I couldn´t read music but learned deducting it from THAT book, it took me about a year to get through it.

Those books you mentioned, Delecluse, Mitchell Peters, Cirone, were written after Podemski´s, much after.

If you check out Solo 5 Portaits in Rhythm (Cirone), when you see an eighth note roll he writes (again, the standard in any book) one eighth with two lines meaning one 8th divided in 32nds, what´s the difference having one 8th with JUST one line, then divided in 16ths (the example you gave)?. There is no difference conceptually...

ALSO CIRONE SOLO 46 first bar you find same thing, one 8th with one line (and even the two dots on top, hahah)

Podemski´s also has NO MISTAKES, how about Wilcoxon´s, hahahaha

I´m not a snare drummer, I´ m Jazz Drummer but I went through some of those books on my own.

Oh by the way those books you mentioned are more difficult, of course depending on wich Peters you talk about.

One thing to note is that the newer edition (around 2000 and later) from Podemski´s have been changed. A ton of dinamics where added that were never there. Why this? If the author would have wanted he would have done it himself (there were some dinamics marking already in the original). That altered completly the level and the ESCENCE of the book, which is just for a beginner student who wants to progress fast to intermediate.

Anecdote: In my country it became popular because Billy Cobham said he studied with it in a magazine!

Billy was/is my idol (in 1972 I was 14).


Senior Member
Now I get it.

If I have one repeated phrase following another, I put brackets on both sides of the repeat sign. This is cleaner. I'm not sure which is more confusing.

With brackets on both sides, it looks more like actual brackets.

< - - - - >< - - - ->

I keep looking at that Podemsky book. It's been on my shelf for years.


Gold Member
Does anyone know what the notation that resembles brackets in the first post are called? Or any reference for them.

The score does not have these marks, only regular brackets for multiple trumpet parts, etc.

Are you talking about the brackets I've marked with yellow or the horizontal ones with numbers 1 and 2 that I've marked blue?


The ones marked yellow and have a colon are repeat brackets. Think of them like two bookends and everything (except where there's 1st and 2nd time endings, see below) between the bookends get repeated.

The horizontal brackets are called 1st and 2nd time endings or 1st time bracket and 2nd time bracket. What happens is that you play from the first yellow marked repeat bracket up to and including the two bars of the 1st time ending; then go back to the first yellow marked repeat bracket and play everything again, except this time you skip the 1st time ending and jump to the 2nd time ending and play those two bars instead. It's very common and a writer's shorthand way of saving having to write lots of bars out again when the notation of only two bars needs to change.

Ghostin one

Senior Member
Yes Merlin, the yellow-marked repeats. Thanks for the picture! Should have marked them myself..

I just don't remember seeing the little diagonal lines that look like caesura or breath marks on ordinary repeats.

Their function was clear to me after the first few replies, but I've searched music notation symbols and typesetter's fonts and numerous books and still haven't found them anywhere.


Platinum Member
You should try reading through Benjamin Podemskis snare drum method book. He got into his own short hand for writing rhythmic phrases. Drove me crazy and I never saw them anywhere else!

Let’s all hate Benjamin Podemski.
I was doing a summer stock gig of 1776 back in the day,imagine my surprise when I saw a written drum score that had the word trill in it.(a whole note with a squiggly line over it)

I asked one of the other percussion guys (who was a music major at WVU) and he just pointed out that it was a roll notation used by some composers.

Tough dealing with some standard notations because some folks just made it up as they went along.

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
...I saw a written drum score that had the word trill in it.(a whole note with a squiggly line over it)

... because some folks just made it up as they went along.


Once again, there is no shorthand from Benjamin Podemski in his book, those abreviations are common places in Music AND ULTRALOGIC.

I have the same abreviations (and many more) in a book of Theory of Music that dates the 19th century, in the section explaining "Abreviations"

If you dont know it you don´t know it, what can you do....?

And once again too, at Anthony CIRONE "Portraits in Rhythm" SOLO 46 you find them all too and he explains that are very frequently used...

Trill (tr) is also a common place but is not used by Podemski, but other guys like DeleCluse, Cirone, etc.