unusual notation

Ghostin one

Senior Member
See the symbols above and below the repeat in the beginning of the ninth bar (first bar in the second line, after the eight bar intro... similar to brackets. They occur at other repeats, too.

Anyone recognize these? What are they and how do they work?

Other Sousa songs in this book use these symbols, but I figured this was the most familiar of the songs, so I chose this one to post.
 

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toddbishop

Platinum Member
It's just a visual aid so you don't miss the repeats. I've never seen the brackets going in the opposite direction like in the third and fourth lines-- they're just avoiding visual clutter on back to back repeats.
 

Merlin5

Gold Member
Exactly what todd said. When I write charts for myself, I always emphasise repeat brackets by drawing the angled tails top and bottom, same as bar 9. But where they've only put the bottom tails at bar 24 and the top tails at bar 25 I've also not seen before. But yes, it's clearly for less visual clutter.
 

Ghostin one

Senior Member
Great, thanks a lot.

I wondered if it might have been about dynamics changing for the repeated strains or something like that.
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
I used to play this in high school marching band - might have even been the same sheet music. Wow, takes me back!
 

Ghostin one

Senior Member
Same here... I was thinking of re-joining an area community concert band and got the book to brush up on parts, and was baffled by the symbols around the repeats. I still don't remember them, but it's been a while.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
You should try reading through Benjamin Podemskis snare drum method book. He got into his own short hand for writing rhythmic phrases. Drove me crazy and I never saw them anywhere else!

Let’s all hate Benjamin Podemski.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
You should try reading through Benjamin Podemskis snare drum method book. He got into his own short hand for writing rhythmic phrases. Drove me crazy and I never saw them anywhere else!

Let’s all hate Benjamin Podemski.
I had to play the first etude in his snare method in pretty much every lesson my first year of college. Very very softly, very fast tempo, with left hand lead, right hand lead, and strict alternating starting with each hand. It was great training for my soft playing. But I hear your frustration
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I had to play the first etude in his snare method in pretty much every lesson my first year of college. Very very softly, very fast tempo, with left hand lead, right hand lead, and strict alternating starting with each hand. It was great training for my soft playing. But I hear your frustration
I’m not sure why he came up with his own notation for certain phrases. They weren’t hard to learn what they were, but if it wasn’t being used by everybody, I think it served more frustration than anything else. Brilliant guy and all, but come on now!

What I think more books should have exposed me to was things written in cut time. I can’t tell you how many show tunes and Disney stuff is written in 2/2!
 

J-Boogie

Gold Member
You should try reading through Benjamin Podemskis snare drum method book. He got into his own short hand for writing rhythmic phrases. Drove me crazy and I never saw them anywhere else!

Let’s all hate Benjamin Podemski.
Ooh cool, Im always looking for someone knew to hate! He's the worst, I heard he gives kittens attitude and never courtesy flushes.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
What I think more books should have exposed me to was things written in cut time. I can’t tell you how many show tunes and Disney stuff is written in 2/2!
I do all my funk stuff with Reed in 2/2. Helps with playing clave based music, too.

You should try reading through Benjamin Podemskis snare drum method book. He got into his own short hand for writing rhythmic phrases. Drove me crazy and I never saw them anywhere else!

Let’s all hate Benjamin Podemski.
Maybe not-- I doubt if 5% of people on the forum could play the whole book. I've seen people use those abbreviations here and there-- not as much he uses them though. It's very elegant, actually, and uses the same logic as normal roll notation-- play the rhythm = to the number of slashes+beams, for the duration of the written note.
 

eddypierce

Senior Member
I do all my funk stuff with Reed in 2/2. Helps with playing clave based music, too.



Maybe not-- I doubt if 5% of people on the forum could play the whole book. I've seen people use those abbreviations here and there-- not as much he uses them though. It's very elegant, actually, and uses the same logic as normal roll notation-- play the rhythm = to the number of slashes+beams, for the duration of the written note.
I always assumed Podemski used all that shorthand notation because he was trying to give students as many different and challenging ways of seeing rhythms as he could so that their reading would improve and that "real life" music would then be a cinch. I recently acquired the book Encyclopedia for Snare Drum by Forrest Clark (he was an orchestral drummer from Southern CA who studied with Murray Spivack, I believe), and if I recall correctly he uses a lot of that shorthand notation as well (the book is from around 1965, I think).
 

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
.. He got into his own short hand for writing rhythmic phrases. ... Let’s all hate Benjamin Podemski.
?


I always assumed Podemski used all that shorthand notation because...

I don´t know what do you mean by "shorthand notation", Posemsky´s method is one of the best written, especially since is from 1940.

PROBABLY BEEN THE BEST for reading UNTIL THE 70´s - 80´s for starters and medium level reading

I had to play the first etude in his snare method...

Do you all play beginners lessons from THAT book (anyway the book is at most medium level)?, have anyone play lesson 26 for example...a bit more advanced...

First lesson is just quarters and quarter note rests...

* Oh by the way, the J. P. Sousa Part on top of the thread has nothing strange on the notation, only pretty boring to play, very repetitive rhythms...
 
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Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
Washington Post. Ah. If I had a "insert currency of choice" for every time I've conducted or played drums on that thing this school year.......

The amateur brass band I'm conducting are quite addicted to it. Goes back long before I showed up. I'd rather let it be for a while. The drummer quite often doesn't show, so..

It's quite normal. Older stuff actually often has the snare in the space above.
 

eddypierce

Senior Member
?

I don´t know what do you mean by "shorthand notation", Posemsky´s method is one of the best written, especially since is from 1940.
What I meant by "shorthand" (picking up on Bo's use of the term) is that if I recall correctly, he uses a lot of slashes through notes that you don't necessarily see very often; for example, a half note with a slash through it to designate that you're supposed to play four 8th notes, or an 8th note with a slash through it (and two dots on top) to signify two 16th notes. It's not necessarily difficult reading, but I'm guessing it's not particularly common for someone to write snare drum figures that way.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
What I meant by "shorthand" (picking up on Bo's use of the term) is that if I recall correctly, he uses a lot of slashes through notes that you don't necessarily see very often; for example, a half note with a slash through it to designate that you're supposed to play four 8th notes, or an 8th note with a slash through it (and two dots on top) to signify two 16th notes. It's not necessarily difficult reading, but I'm guessing it's not particularly common for someone to write snare drum figures that way.
That's what I was getting at. Some of the figures Podemski uses you just don't see anywhere else. Although, they are not hard to decipher once you start studying the book, the fact that none of it exists in any music you'll be reading outside of his book, is what's puzzling. Maybe back in the day, Podemski was trying to get composers to use his notation shorthand, and now over 60 years later, nobody uses it.
 

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
... but I'm guessing it's not particularly common for someone to write snare drum figures that way.
You are guessing wrong is very usual, come man, that´s elementary, hahah. All abreviations work like that, besides, on page 21 of the book is explained how abreviations work, again, he didn¨t make it up, it was already standard.

I´m surprised the opener also never saw a bracket (first bar, second system) in his life...that´s the REAL way of writting it (also in Math).

Reading music is becoming a lost art...
 
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eddypierce

Senior Member
You are guessing wrong is very usual, come man, that´s elementary, hahah. All abreviations work like that, besides, on page 21 of the book is explained how abreviations work, again, he didn¨t make it up, it was already standard.

I´m surprised the opener also never saw a bracket (first bar, second system) in his life...that´s the REAL way of writting it (also in Math).

Reading music is becoming a lost art...
I defer to your greater level of skill and experience. I don't perform written snare drum music much these days, and haven't since I graduated from college over 20 years ago. My main experience with orchestral snare music since then has mainly just been what I've seen in snare method or etude books (Delecluse, Mitchell Peters, Cirone, etc.) It appears I was mistaken about how commonplace this type of notation is in the literature.

Just to be clear, I think Podemski's book is a wonderful resource, and I certainly wasn't criticizing him for using such notation. I just didn't think it was all that common; but now I stand corrected!
 

Ghostin one

Senior Member
Does anyone know what the notation that resembles brackets in the first post are called? Or any reference for them.

The score does not have these marks, only regular brackets for multiple trumpet parts, etc.
 
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