tuning v resonance

THE_NIK

Junior Member
hi my name is nick and i am new enough to this forum. i got my first pro kit about a month ago(dw collectors 10*8 12*9 16*14 toms) and i am having issues tuning it. i am not experienced at tuning and this is the first kit that i have tried to really listen to rather than just making do.

am i asking to much of the kit to expect the decay and release to be similar in different toms.
i am using stock remo reso's and coated remo emperor's. with a square of moon gel to kill over tones.

i think i might be to finicky. i was happy with the tuning until i noticed the resonance of the mid tom is longer that that of the hi and floor tom... the floor i don't mind as much as i have that fairly loose. i have changed the tuning since to match the resonance a little better but now i think im loosing the tone i want

i will be recording this drums soon so any advice or comments are appreciated i have attached a sound clip recorded on a 57

thank you
 

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HenrikEckmann

Junior Member
The duration of the resonance often have to do with the relationship in pitch between the two heads of each drum.
If the pitch difference between the heads are the same on every tom, the resonance will most likely match up.
 
A

audiotech

Guest
The sustain on your high and mid toms sound very close in my opinion. Maybe the heads might not be in tune with themselves. Where you need the work is basically on the floor tom because it really sounds dead. Try working on getting the most resonance and this is were the shells really like to sing. In addition, probably all your drums could use a touch up in the tuning department. If you want the longest sustain, try getting both the batter and resonant heads to approximately the same pitch.

If you like your toms sounding dead, then never mind what I'm saying and just work on the two higher toms.

Dennis
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
The sustain on your high and mid toms sound very close in my opinion. Maybe the heads might not be in tune with themselves. Where you need the work is basically on the floor tom because it really sounds dead. Try working on getting the most resonance and this is were the shells really like to sing. In addition, probably all your drums could use a touch up in the tuning department. If you want the longest sustain, try getting both the batter and resonant heads to approximately the same pitch.

If you like your toms sounding dead, then never mind what I'm saying and just work on the two higher toms.

Dennis
Spot on advice from Dennis as usual. The Nik, did you place the mic close to the two top toms but some distance from the floor tom? It sounds like it. Anyhow, those two top toms are certainly not tuned well. I can pick up both pitch bending and strong secondary tones. Both lead me to believe you need to tune as Dennis advises. Yeah, the floor tom is very dead. Try doing all of this without moongel. Only use it if you've exhausted every tuning & head selection possibility. If you're recording soon, try positioning the tom mics some distance away from the drum so you pick up as much of the resolved tone as possible. That may help get a more cohesive sound.
 

Simon_Blvd

Junior Member
Understand that 10, 12, 16 is not a good tuning relationship. You are going from two toms that are made to go right next to each other to a floor tom that is way apart from those two. I don't give a rat's behind that they were made by DW. You have to USE them CORRECTLY. Tune each drum to its natural state and THEN ask whether it works. Size matters.
 

THE_NIK

Junior Member
i tuned with out the gel then i started messing with them again. i only used a small bit to kill over tone's. i have never used it before and i am of the same opinion of trying to get them right with out gel or tape first... but my ear and skills are wanting. The same mic was approx the same distance away from each tom but maybe not pointed directly at the 3d middle on the 16. The band i will be recording are heavy so i think i will detune altogether. i was not trying to tune chromatically or to the timbre stamp.

is resonance directly related to the ratio of Height x Depth if both skins are tune equally. Am i right in saying if you have two drums of different square sizes that are built the same way with heads tuned equally the resonance should be the same.

@keep it simple
"If you're recording soon, try positioning the tom mics some distance away from the drum so you pick up as much of the resolved tone as possible. That may help get a more cohesive sound."

do you mean not close micing. i have ok OH's and plan to use them primarily and i will use spot mic's to fill out the sound if needed...

thanks for the replies so far
 

Chaos_Inferno

Silver Member
i tuned with out the gel then i started messing with them again. i only used a small bit to kill over tone's. i have never used it before and i am of the same opinion of trying to get them right with out gel or tape first... but my ear and skills are wanting. The same mic was approx the same distance away from each tom but maybe not pointed directly at the 3d middle on the 16. The band i will be recording are heavy so i think i will detune altogether. i was not trying to tune chromatically or to the timbre stamp.

is resonance directly related to the ratio of Height x Depth if both skins are tune equally. Am i right in saying if you have two drums of different square sizes that are built the same way with heads tuned equally the resonance should be the same.

@keep it simple
"If you're recording soon, try positioning the tom mics some distance away from the drum so you pick up as much of the resolved tone as possible. That may help get a more cohesive sound."

do you mean not close micing. i have ok OH's and plan to use them primarily and i will use spot mic's to fill out the sound if needed...

thanks for the replies so far
A bigger drum is going to resonate more than a smaller one. Do you really think an 8x8 would resonate the same amount as a 16x16 if they were tuned well? There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the volume of the two shells... more volume = more resonance.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Everything...effects resonance not just tuning.Drum heads,muffeling, ,drum size,shell material and thickness,not to mention hardware and mounting methods.Each drum has a sweet spot and it does take time to find it,but getting the drum in tune with itself is the first step.Try taking the toms off their mounts and placing them on a carpeted floor that will mute one drum head.Tune to just over no wrinkles and work from there till both heads are the same pitch.Check youtube vids for Bob Gadsen...the man is... a tuning guru

Steve B
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Take the bottom heads off of all your drums (except the snare of course), install some Remo black dots, and just tune each one to a note you like. That'll fix it!

;)
 

cp84

Senior Member
just keep practising. tuning has to be practised like everything else. Once you can get all of the lugs to the same pitch then you're well on your way.

practise tuning all lugs to the same pitch, then practise getting both heads to the same pitch.

you should also expermient by increasing the intervals between the two heads so that you know what that sounds like. sound cannot be explained easily in words. you just have you use your ears and muddle your way through.
 

THE_NIK

Junior Member
Had a look at bob gatzens vids. i have ben tuning with one head muffled. tuning each lug to the same pitch is ok to me. but then ill swap over heads try to match the sound. they sound reasonably matched then s%$t....i have been tuning on my my knee sitting down to muffle the opposite head. i will try a few of your techniques.

BO do mean to leave the reso heads off ???
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Had a look at bob gatzens vids. i have ben tuning with one head muffled. tuning each lug to the same pitch is ok to me. but then ill swap over heads try to match the sound. they sound reasonably matched then s%$t....i have been tuning on my my knee sitting down to muffle the opposite head. i will try a few of your techniques.

BO do mean to leave the reso heads off ???
Heck yeah! It'll give your nice new drums that "incomplete" look as well!
 

double_G

Silver Member
just a note...IMHO the moongel is too much & will sound flat in an unmic'd (or even mic'd) situation. you should be able to get a nice loud resonant tone w/ emperors/amb clear wide-open. just tune to the resonant note of the shell. not 100% easy, but once you got the note, (for me) its the ultimate open sound.
 

Spectron

Silver Member
I think the two rack toms in your clip have too much sustain
and the floor sounds just right

when mixing recorded drums compression is often used
and this compression will enhance the sustain in most cases
so that floor tom will come out nicely IMHO
but the rack toms will be a tadmuddy unless you control that sustain a little.

I tune my toms so that the sustain gradually increases as the drums get larger.
 

THE_NIK

Junior Member
I think the two rack toms in your clip have too much sustain
and the floor sounds just right

when mixing recorded drums compression is often used
and this compression will enhance the sustain in most cases
so that floor tom will come out nicely IMHO
but the rack toms will be a tadmuddy unless you control that sustain a little.

I tune my toms so that the sustain gradually increases as the drums get larger.
i never taught of compression. i ended up putting on clear remo's that i had already and i tuned to what he liked then i "fine tuned" a little to match the top and bottom used the coated heads on the bottom. i attached a short clip.. nothing done to it not mixed or anything 1 room mic,2 over heads and spots on toms snr and kik. have to redo the lot any way so may try some sugestions.
 

THE_NIK

Junior Member
just a note...IMHO the moongel is too much & will sound flat in an unmic'd (or even mic'd) situation. you should be able to get a nice loud resonant tone w/ emperors/amb clear wide-open. just tune to the resonant note of the shell. not 100% easy, but once you got the note, (for me) its the ultimate open sound.

i did try this when i was first tuning but i wasn't mad on sound. i may try again no i know a little more.
 

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