Tunebot and snare wires bed

Quai34

Junior Member
Hi Guys,
So, I'm pretty good at using the tunebot and usually, I'm at only 0.5 hrtz green max from the reference one recorded for the lugs. With my 8 lugs snare, I can do the same with the 4 lugs around the wires like the others but today, with the Starphonic, anytime I raise the snare bed lugs, it changes up the 3 other pairs of lugs. Is it because it's a 10 live instead of 8. If yes, why? Because the range for each lug is larger due to having less lugs?
Also, I heard several time that you will never be able to completely have the snare bed lugs at the same Tension of the other ones, just because of the snare bed. Is it true?
So, if I have to leave a bit of a difference in the snare bed lugs, is 2.5hrtz, yellow so, lower, is ok or should I try to go closer to the 3 external pairs of lugs like 1hrtz or 0.5 Hertz lower?
Let me know
Sincerely
 

I-P

Active Member
Not helpful in a direct answer, but ..

If I'm within 3 I'm good.

No one is going to hear/notice a difference.
 

eric_B

Senior Member
I have experienced the same, the snare side lugs can be trickier to tune to the same pitch.
Like I-P said, I wouldn't worry too much about it, get is as good as you can and it will be fine.

BTW: In fact, a trick to reduce (sympathetic) snare buzz is to loosen the 4 rods closest to the snare wires.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Not helpful in a direct answer, but ..

If I'm within 3 I'm good.

No one is going to hear/notice a difference.
What do you mean, 3?? 3 Hertz you mean? But you really Hear the difference in the overtones, well, maybe it's my "keyboards payer mode" which is speaking to much, I met way more drummers who don't even tune their drums that some who are trying to tune the different shells with some intervals between them.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
I have experienced the same, the snare side lugs can be trickier to tune to the same pitch.
Like I-P said, I wouldn't worry too much about it, get is as good as you can and it will be fine.

BTW: In fact, a trick to reduce (sympathetic) snare buzz is to loosen the 4 rods closest to the snare wires.
Yes, that's it, I knew they were something like that but couldn't remember in which way it was, loosening snare rods or tightening the others....heuuuu, it's the same in fact...well, stupid me!!! Ok, I still when some wrinkles on the sands side head if the Dunnet, is it normal? Just in the bed only, is it because the bed are so large that the head has a tough time really conforming to the edge? They are straight edge as well, is it a reason too? I wanted to contact Ron Dinner but his contact form doesn't work, anyone having an email of some sort?
I also whatcha again Rob Brown and Benny Greg video on thing and I loosened my snare wires, too tight they were...if I want less sustain, I use dampening, not tightening the snares...
Tehnthing is that it's. It sympathetic buzz, I'm sure, I what that route few months ago and with your help, on this forum, I solved it on tuning the snares to a different note than the Toms:
Toms are C3 Floor Tom 16", (I will tune the snare/Tom 15" in E3), 13" is G3, 12" is B3 and 10" is E4. Then, Snares are F#3 (Sendan), G#3 (Benny Greg Brass), A#3 (Tama Maple 5"), plus also some in A3 (Dunnet)....I have just a little normal sympathetic buzz but it took me really a while to get to it and make it work!!!
Ok, my issue is that, with the weather going crazy from 12 C with raining up to 37C and still humid, the single ply move a lot, 1/2 a step to even one step, Tama Sendan went from F# to G#, Benney Greg brass didn't move a nail, and Tama Maple 5" went from A#3 to B3!!! I think the snare head is a bit more than 400 hrtz, tunebot says not to go over 400. It the snare did it a?one so, I hope it won't change the snare and/or the head right?
Let me know
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
Ok, my issue is that, with the weather going crazy from 12 C with raining up to 37C and still humid, the single ply move a lot, 1/2 a step to even one step, Tama Sendan went from F# to G#, Benney Greg brass didn't move a nail, and Tama Maple 5" went from A#3 to B3!!! I think the snare head is a bit more than 400 hrtz, tunebot says not to go over 400. It the snare did it a?one so, I hope it won't change the snare and/or the head right?
The humidity is causing the wood drums to expand slightly, this is why your head tension went up. The wood is absorbing some extra moisture. Humidity does not affect brass in the same way, therefore the drum is not effected.

If you tune a wooden drum in a humid environment then it drys out, the pitch will go down because the drum shrinks slightly as it sheds moisture.

As for snare beds, I've found that shallower ones like to have their lugs loosened a bit, and deep one like their lugs tightened more to help with buzz.
 

eric_B

Senior Member
I still when some wrinkles on the sands side head if the Dunnet, is it normal? Just in the bed only, is it because the bed are so large that the head has a tough time really conforming to the edge? They are straight edge as well, is it a reason too?
I'm not sure, I don't have wrinkles in the reso heads when I tighten the rods equally to a normal tension - which usually is pretty high for a reso head.

It sympathetic buzz, I'm sure, I what that route few months ago and with your help, on this forum, I solved it on tuning the snares to a different note than the Toms:
Yeah, tuning toms (usually 1 tom causes the most problems) and the snare apart can make the buzz a lot less.
Some buzzing is to be expected though.

I think the snare head is a bit more than 400 hrtz, tunebot says not to go over 400. It the snare did it a?one so, I hope it won't change the snare and/or the head right?
I don't think going a bit over 400 Hz will cause problems, just pay attention when tightening.
A reso head is pretty thin so if you go too extreme it could tear.
You also could loosen the reso head a bit and tighten the batter one instead.
 

cbphoto

Diamond Member
I’m of the opinion that the TuneBot should get you in the ball park of good tuning, and your ear should get you to home base. Kind of like mixing music or color grading video: the numerical info on the scopes tells you things are not bad, but your ears (or eyes) tell you if the results are good.

My studio (steel shed) doesn’t remain in the same climate. There are times where I don’t work in there for a few weeks and it can get warm and humid in the summer, or freezing and humid in the winter. My drums’ tunings are constantly changing, and whipping out my tuning key happens every time I sit down to the kit.

And @Quai34 , if you really want a surprise/curve ball, put on a set of Fat Cat Adjustable snare wires and start tweaking the set screw.

15EC6892-B4AD-48AD-8A49-434888F283EE.jpeg
 

ToneT

Silver Member
I NEVER have a problem tensioning up my bottom snare heads evenly all the way around. It just takes some time to do the tweaking. Tune Bot setting is 392.0 hz.
My approach is just personal preference: I don't employ any detuning on any heads regardless of drum.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
The humidity is causing the wood drums to expand slightly, this is why your head tension went up. The wood is absorbing some extra moisture. Humidity does not affect brass in the same way, therefore the drum is not effected.

If you tune a wooden drum in a humid environment then it drys out, the pitch will go down because the drum shrinks slightly as it sheds moisture.

As for snare beds, I've found that shallower ones like to have their lugs loosened a bit, and deep one like their lugs tightened more to help with buzz.
Ok, thanks a lot for the info on buzz between deep and shallower beds. I will try that on my Dunnet. And now I get it for the single ply behavior. So, here ,in winter, it's super dry and more humid in summer so, normal that there is changes then, great, I understand, thanks again.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
I’m of the opinion that the TuneBot should get you in the ball park of good tuning, and your ear should get you to home base. Kind of like mixing music or color grading video: the numerical info on the scopes tells you things are not bad, but your ears (or eyes) tell you if the results are good.

My studio (steel shed) doesn’t remain in the same climate. There are times where I don’t work in there for a few weeks and it can get warm and humid in the summer, or freezing and humid in the winter. My drums’ tunings are constantly changing, and whipping out my tuning key happens every time I sit down to the kit.

And @Quai34 , if you really want a surprise/curve ball, put on a set of Fat Cat Adjustable snare wires and start tweaking the set screw.

View attachment 120829
Yesterday, after watching some video, and listening a bit on my snares, I sorted a note to myself which was: "finish the tuning with your ears..." So, we are on the same page. Ok, I will try this this of wires, is it something I can buy these days or is it an old system?
Also, when I had only one snare, Is as good all the time, you start to know it and how it reacts, now, I have 7 snares so, a bit lost with the new woods and metals too...hey, the inconvenient of having a small collection.
 

Quai34

Junior Member
I NEVER have a problem tensioning up my bottom snare heads evenly all the way around. It just takes some time to do the tweaking. Tune Bot setting is 392.0 hz.
My approach is just personal preference: I don't employ any detuning on any heads regardless of drum.
Ok, the tunebot guide says 398 max so, I'm I the same ballpark as you. My issue is more a little buzz that starts at ten end of the snare sound, just after an almost full decrease....a little zing...
 

Quai34

Junior Member
Ok, I look at DFD and they have "no pitch" snare wires and "with pitch" snare wires, what does it means? The snare wires have a pitch??
 

Quai34

Junior Member
I'm not sure, I don't have wrinkles in the reso heads when I tighten the rods equally to a normal tension - which usually is pretty high for a reso head.


Yeah, tuning toms (usually 1 tom causes the most problems) and the snare apart can make the buzz a lot less.
Some buzzing is to be expected though.


I don't think going a bit over 400 Hz will cause problems, just pay attention when tightening.
A reso head is pretty thin so if you go too extreme it could tear.
You also could loosen the reso head a bit and tighten the batter one instead.
I didn't tighten it myself, it just did it itself with the humidity. Also, my 13" has a higher tension that 400, not much, maybe 405 or 412, which is normal because it's a 13" right?maybe first time I was trying to stay under 400 and was never happy by ears so, I went up a bit more, but normal for a 13", am I right?
 

eric_B

Senior Member
I didn't tighten it myself, it just did it itself with the humidity. Also, my 13" has a higher tension that 400, not much, maybe 405 or 412, which is normal because it's a 13" right?maybe first time I was trying to stay under 400 and was never happy by ears so, I went up a bit more, but normal for a 13", am I right?
OK, I see. Yes, smaller drums usually are tuned higher.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
Ok, I look at DFD and they have "no pitch" snare wires and "with pitch" snare wires, what does it means? The snare wires have a pitch??
Angular pitch (like a roof), not musical pitch.

It has to do with the end plates. A flat end plate has no pitch because its flat. An end plate with a bend in it has pitch. That bend is the pitch.

Here ya go:
20220629_070101.jpg
 
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someguy01

Platinum Member
Angular pitch (like a roof), not musical pitch.

It has to do with the end plates. A flat end plate has no pitch because its flat. An end plate with a bend in it has pitch. That bend is the pitch.

Here ya go:
View attachment 120862
If you own a vise, you can DIY the pitch.
 

cbphoto

Diamond Member
Yesterday, after watching some video, and listening a bit on my snares, I sorted a note to myself which was: "finish the tuning with your ears..." So, we are on the same page. Ok, I will try this this of wires, is it something I can buy these days or is it an old system?
Also, when I had only one snare, Is as good all the time, you start to know it and how it reacts, now, I have 7 snares so, a bit lost with the new woods and metals too...hey, the inconvenient of having a small collection.
I’ve experienced the same with my quiver, and it helps me learn how to tune better.

There are so many options for tweaking a drum’s sound. The reso head. The batter head. The wires. Muting tools such as gels or the Big Fat Snare donut. Hoops. In some cases the change was minuscule, and with other changes it was clearly audible even to non-drummers.

Fat Cat adjustable snappy snares are currently available in 4 different sizes. Find a reseller on their distribution site:

 

Quai34

Junior Member
I went back today after having left my snares for 2 days without touching them and on some, the "zing" at the end of the wires sound has disappeared ??? but the tension at the wires bed is not the same, do you think that the head might have seated better and that the pitch at the lugs close to the bed might have changed and adapt?
Also, I could retuned them now by ear to get the exact pitch at every and each lugs even if I find the sound awesome?? I had my friend who is really good at tuning but he tuned a lot with the feeling of the tension in his finger too, like what Brent Greg explained on his video, and his ears and thought they were super good so, I don't know....
I spent a lot of time for me to get to the point that I'm super happy with that I'm a bit afraid to change it and screw it up!!!
How do au know that an snare needs a bit less tension at the wires lugs beside the fact that it's the case with large and shallower bed and that it's the opposite with deep and narrow beds, like C Dave Run said or that I should tweak the lugs evenly like (as my friend said he usually do) T Tone said??

Besides the reaction with the bed that has to be learn because it depends on the type/size/form of bed, do we know if some material will get more overtone and extra risk for inopportune buzz ?

Like metal usually get more? Steel the first for more overtone and buzz, then brass, then aluminium etc....

Let me know, I might have an article on this somewhere in my collection of printed articles from the web.
Anyway, let me know.
 
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