Tune-Bot your method

Auspicious

Well-known member
Just asking. Why do we tune with little taps, but when we play we bang very hard??
Ahh well naturally to save my ears, I actually hate undesired noise very much. And secondly except for the reso head over 350hz, the tune bot is capable of picking up the frequencies with minimal strength. I tried to tap harder on the resonant head but it was ineffective and perhaps not ideal for the reso head itself.

***
Just by pushing the resonant head with my hands and weight, so seat it correctly, I caused damage to it. with videos like this one and others (around 3:15, S.P., Jumping on the bass drum, please watch it it's hilarious.), I thought drum heads were close to indestructible and required to be seriously seated (I am a fan of Simon Philips, no mistake.)


This is the result of me pushing with my hands, perhaps my knuckles, a mistake..


***

There is a third point.. as I am studying jazz, I listen to many records and my goal is to play as light weight as it can be, feather light playing?. At least that's a goal.
 

OSDrums

Well-known member
Now you know there´s a difference between a bass head and a snare reso! Frankly said you don‘t need to seat a snare reso at all because it‘s so thin that it will fit the bearing edge anyway. It should only be mounted centered.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
Just asking. Why do we tune with little taps, but when we play we bang very hard??
Don't want to hit hard so close to the bearing edge.
The tapping is only to gauge the lug tension. It's the tension that tunes the drum, not the tapping 👅
I always check the fundamental note with light and hard hits. Sometimes a tuning doesn't feel right in the stick and adjustments need to be made.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Now you know there´s a difference between a bass head and a snare reso! Frankly said you don‘t need to seat a snare reso at all because it‘s so thin that it will fit the bearing edge anyway. It should only be mounted centered.
hehehe I learned that :p All my heads are pretty thin, the G1 and event the Powerstroke 3 is not a very thick head. But I ceartainly learned more about the resistance of the resonant head this time.

If you really want to go into the theory I recommend this: https://www.idrumtune.com/learn
Ok I,ll have a look at it eventually.. i still have the task of saving the pitch lugs and fundamental notes for all my drum.. I need to do it before it's too late..
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
I saved the result of my latest tuning with the tune-bot GIG this is the result, I still need to roll a video of this for analysis.



I find it surprising because, the new tuning called CUSTOM from Test-03, I modified mainly the batter heads in order to change the notes a little, from TEST-03.

SNARE:
Surprisingly the snare is still a F3.. but I learned that apparently there is a range of tone within F3. The resonant head it now much tighter then TEST-03, it makes a difference somehow. By ear lugs are G4.

Hi-tom
I played with the batter head only, it's still a C3# but 142hz instead of 139hz.. apparently that was enough to make a difference... stunning.

Floor tom
I played with the batter head and the resonant head. this one passed from 86hz to 97h fundamental pitch, it's different from the TEST-03 noticeably. .. The sound is satisfying with the resonant head, higher then the batter head.. what do you know? I think an excess or resonance was cancelled by tuning it's resonant head a bit tighter. (From 152 to 182~187)

It's a real learning curve.

Bass Drum now, that one.. was tune by ear and by the feeling, the rebound of the beater, it doesn't really have a definitive pitch but I can hear an interesting shell resonance without anything inside, Both heads have muffling, so it an all rounder bass drum more then a jazz bass drum with high tonality, I'll keep it like that, it has a nice narrow and fast "BOOM"

But I think it's tuned fairly high anyways.

It's not over, I'll roll a video soon then to proceed with extra tweaks when, I get the new tune-bot Studio, I want to take a break of tuning for 1 or 2 weeks, lol.
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
There's a free iPhone & Android app that can memorize the settings for a few sets.
I'll have to check it out. I like the spreadsheet because I can make it as fancy as I want it. If I want to change the resonance tuning from 'mid' to 'low', I have the calculations there in separate columns. I'm still trying to figure out the lug constants that the Drum Calculator app is using, particularly why they're different from the tunebot user guide.

The spreadsheet has endless room for all kinds of various tunings. I'll try and share some screenshots when I get the chance. It's a work in progress, so it isn't yet in it's best form.

EDIT: Is there a way to share the actual spreadsheet file on DW?
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
I saved the result of my latest tuning with the tune-bot GIG this is the result, I still need to roll a video of this for analysis.



I find it surprising because, the new tuning called CUSTOM from Test-03, I modified mainly the batter heads in order to change the notes a little, from TEST-03.

SNARE:
Surprisingly the snare is still a F3.. but I learned that apparently there is a range of tone within F3. The resonant head it now much tighter then TEST-03, it makes a difference somehow. By ear lugs are G4.

Hi-tom
I played with the batter head only, it's still a C3# but 142hz instead of 139hz.. apparently that was enough to make a difference... stunning.

Floor tom
I played with the batter head and the resonant head. this one passed from 86hz to 97h fundamental pitch, it's different from the TEST-03 noticeably. .. The sound is satisfying with the resonant head, higher then the batter head.. what do you know? I think an excess or resonance was cancelled by tuning it's resonant head a bit tighter. (From 152 to 182~187)

It's a real learning curve.

Bass Drum now, that one.. was tune by ear and by the feeling, the rebound of the beater, it doesn't really have a definitive pitch but I can hear an interesting shell resonance without anything inside, Both heads have muffling, so it an all rounder bass drum more then a jazz bass drum with high tonality, I'll keep it like that, it has a nice narrow and fast "BOOM"

But I think it's tuned fairly high anyways.

It's not over, I'll roll a video soon then to proceed with extra tweaks when, I get the new tune-bot Studio, I want to take a break of tuning for 1 or 2 weeks, lol.
Nice, Auspicious! Thanks for sharing the tunings and your findings. I have my note values entered in two columns in my spreadsheet, titled 'Octave' and 'Note', so that I can use a LOOKUP function into a frequency table I created. But everything has been put on hold right now while I spend most of my time looking for work. LOL
 

OSDrums

Well-known member
hehehe I learned that :p All my heads are pretty thin, the G1 and event the Powerstroke 3 is not a very thick head. But I ceartainly learned more about the resistance of the resonant head this time.
G1 and PS3 are 10 mil thick heads - the average snare reso is 3 mils.
 

yammyfan

Senior Member
142 Hz is a really comfortable place for a 10" rack tom, it seems to me.

I have settled on 142 Hz for my 10", 112 Hz for my 12" and 73 to 77 Hz for my 14" floor toms. That's "my sound" I guess. I cover a lot of territory (rock/pop/country/blues) so I need a general purpose tuning for that.

I've tuned my drums high for a few unmic'd gigs and they really cut through so that's always an option. I let the situation dictate what is needed, essentially.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
I'll have to check it out. I like the spreadsheet because I can make it as fancy as I want it. If I want to change the resonance tuning from 'mid' to 'low', I have the calculations there in separate columns. I'm still trying to figure out the lug constants that the Drum Calculator app is using, particularly why they're different from the tunebot user guide.

The spreadsheet has endless room for all kinds of various tunings. I'll try and share some screenshots when I get the chance. It's a work in progress, so it isn't yet in it's best form.

EDIT: Is there a way to share the actual spreadsheet file on DW?
My spreadsheet is just a work in progress too, I didn't put much thought about it but I keep adding columns and rows. I didn't used any calculations to get a resonant / batter head tension ratio,not there yet.. that would be the next step, to find the perfect place for my my resonant heads.

In 2 weeks when the Tune-Bot Studio arrives.

So far the data from the Tune-Bot tables, was mildly useful to me, we will see later.

I use GoogleDrive to publish PDFs to share files, it's very easy and fast to use, It can take very large files too. Good luck with the work, things will restart eventually I hope, when this economic sabotage ends.

He only weighs about 130 pounds...
Lol yeah I thought the same thing, he was a light weight.

G1 and PS3 are 10 mil thick heads - the average snare reso is 3 mils.
Ok.. I thought the G1 were fairly thin heads also. I have some ambassadors and they are thinner, but I don't like them, too thin for my taste.

142 Hz is a really comfortable place for a 10" rack tom, it seems to me.

I have settled on 142 Hz for my 10", 112 Hz for my 12" and 73 to 77 Hz for my 14" floor toms. That's "my sound" I guess. I cover a lot of territory (rock/pop/country/blues) so I need a general purpose tuning for that.

I've tuned my drums high for a few unmic'd gigs and they really cut through so that's always an option. I let the situation dictate what is needed, essentially.
I might lower a bit one day like that, with no experience playing in front of people of using microphones so far.. this is the end of the journey really. I might not even do it but we will see.

At least now I can understand what people do, thanks for sharing these values.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Same here, I have Studio version. It's the best one they've made to date IMO. With the Hi Filter engaged I can get well past 400 Hz no problem. I usually leave all my snares-sides at 390-394 Hz anyways.

My pro tip: On any drum and head, instead of a drumstick use a timpani mallet to gently tap at each lug while tuning. Much clearer and accurate readings I've found.
I built a DIY mallet and it's true that the note is easier to pick up by ear, somewhat, I always return to the wooden stick. Yesterday, I compared the results with the wooden stick AND the mallet, the Tune-Bot will read almost the same thing with both instruments too. BUT it's easier for the ear to pick up the note with the mallet.

true.

My 5CAD mallet ((; with these awesome light weight Zildjian DIP 7A with a round head, I absolutely love them.

 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
My spreadsheet is just a work in progress too, I didn't put much thought about it but I keep adding columns and rows. I didn't used any calculations to get a resonant / batter head tension ratio,not there yet.. that would be the next step, to find the perfect place for my my resonant heads.
I used the following to compute the note frequencies for major 3rd, perfect 4th, and perfect 5th:

2^(n/12)

where 'n' is the number of semitones between the starting note and the desired note.

Major 3rd : 4 semitones : 2^(4/12) = 1.2599210498949
Perfect 4th : 5 semitones : 2^(5/12) = 1.33483985417
Perfect 5th : 7 semitones : 2^(7/12) = 1.4983069759068

You can also auto-generate a frequency table using the semitone constant c = 2^(1/12), by dividing 440Hz (A4) by 'c' for lower notes, and multiplying by 'c' for higher notes.

That should get you through the frequency lookups and the drum interval selection. The lug constants are from my earlier post (the different resonances - low, med, high):

(batter/reso)
Low: 1.2/2.3
Med: 1.4/2.0
High: 1.5/1.85

That's all the math that's needed I think.
 
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rhumbagirl

Senior Member
The semitone constant

c = 2^(1/12)

is from

(a) x12 = 2 * x0 ...................(x12 is one octave higher than x0, and so double the frequency)
(b) x12 = x0 * c^12 ............(there are 12 semitones per octave)

where (b) is from

x12 = (c * x11)
x11 = (c * x10)
...
x1 = (c * x0)

or

x12 = (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * (c * x0))))))))))))

= x0 * c^12

So, putting (a) and (b) together, we have

2 * x0 = x0 * c^12

or

2 = c^12

or

c = 2^(1/12)
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
Hello Thanks Rhumbagirl for the numbers and maths, I will study your 2 publications a bit later for sure.

It's time to practice the drums now but I have an internal fight between practicing the drums or listening to Ancient Aliens season 7 while eating fat rich foods and sweet desserts (and then falling asleep directly) 🤣

ahahah I think I'll practice the drum first, if it's a good practice lasting only 10 minutes and if it's enough to make me happy then that will ll be it.

I'll start with brushes in 3/4 or anything in 3/4.
 

Auspicious

Well-known member
@rhumbagirl Gee, the 3/4 comping and brushes practice was difficult. I feel like I regressed compared to last time.. the process of really understanding the exercises and figuring out that I was doing it all wrong previously (when it was fun)

Or something.

Wow.. I am searching for ways to be positive in this right now.. and how am I going to understand and handle the brush coordination eventually...

I know --> I'll start eating rich food soon to compensate for this mess, beer drinkers might be into something.

Now I cough.. is it Covid-19 messing with me now?
 
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