Tune-Bot and Snare Drums

Stroman

Stroman

Diamond Member
You had to know I was going to keep tinkering and posting about my new gadget, right? lol

Today, I used the Tune-Bot to experiment with my little collection of snare drums. I worked with:

1960's Slingerland Gene Krupa COB 5X14 (8 lug)
1970's Slingerland Artist 3-ply w/re-rings 5.5X14 (8 lug)
Rogers Powertone 5-ply w/re-rings 6.5X14 (8 lug)
Pearl Aluminum Sensitone 5X14 (10 lug)
Pork Pie Black over Brass BoB 6.5X14 (10 lug)

This is a relatively small sample, but I was able to make some general observations.

1) First of all, I'm still impressed with the Tune-Bot's ease of use, overall.
2) Snare drums provided more false readings than toms and bass for me. The mis-reads are very easy to spot, so I don't regard it as a huge problem. For example, I was in the 266Hz neighborhood, and ended up getting a couple readings in the 40s and a couple in the 300s. In each case, just taking the reading again sorted it out. When the reading is correct, it's consistent. I'd be more concerned if it bounced around 20 Hz or so, because then I'd worry about the accuracy. Instead, it just seems that the unit sometimes gets a stronger reading from some overtone. In any case, when I used the filter function I got no errant readings.
3) The metal drums were more likely to throw weird frequencies.
4) The wood drums were super easy to dial in.
5) The eight lug drums were, by far, easier to tune up than the 10-luggers. At some tunings, with the 10-lug drums, the lugs 90 degrees from the snare beds were barely past finger tight when the frequencies were correct. That's a phenomenon I've noticed before with 10-lug snares, and the Tune-Bot just reinforced my previous experience.
6) I expected difficulty from the snare side heads, based on other comments in the past, but they weren't that hard. I'd say tuning them is a little more finicky - I think because they are stretched so tight, they react differently to the tuning key. For example, if I was aiming for a reading of 398Hz and was sitting at 394, some lugs took 3 quarter turns and others might take one quarter turn to affect the same change. I found this was far more pronounced on the snare sides than on the batter heads, which were pretty predictable.

All in all, I love this thing! I know a lot of people aren't interested in the numbers and the data, and many people, myself included, can get a drum to sound good without it. But I love the ability to be able to experiment and actually measure and record your findings. Lots of fun! Plus, all my snare drums currently sound killah!
 
One trick I adapted from Bob Gatzen is tapping at the lug opposite from the one I'm turning to dial in the pitch. I use it especially if I'm turning a tension rod and the Tune Bot isn't reading any change in pitch.

One phenomenon the Tune Bot has made me more aware of is that equal pitch and equal tension don't always go hand in hand. When first putting a head on I'll use two keys on opposite sides to bring the head up as evenly as I can, then when fine tuning with the Tune Bot I'll go around once tapping and adjusting at the same lug, then make another circle tapping and adjusting at the opposite lug.
 
Winston_Wolf said:
One trick I adapted from Bob Gatzen is tapping at the lug opposite from the one I'm turning to dial in the pitch. I use it especially if I'm turning a tension rod and the Tune Bot isn't reading any change in pitch.

One phenomenon the Tune Bot has made me more aware of is that equal pitch and equal tension don't always go hand in hand. When first putting a head on I'll use two keys on opposite sides to bring the head up as evenly as I can, then when fine tuning with the Tune Bot I'll go around once tapping and adjusting at the same lug, then make another circle tapping and adjusting at the opposite lug.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you mention that! Because I kind of do that without thinking about it. Gatzen's "head and a half" tuning was a huge eye-opener for me, and it's been part of my tuning technique for a long time.

You're also right about tension not necessarily equaling pitch. Maybe the tension of the film, but most definitely not the torque required to turn the key.

Now I kinda want to get a Tension Watch to see if tympanic pressure directly corresponds to pitch. Lol I'm sure someone has already checked that out, but I'm kinda do-it-yourself.

Good points, Winston! Always good info from you. 😊
 
Winston_Wolf said:
One phenomenon the Tune Bot has made me more aware of is that equal pitch and equal tension don't always go hand in hand.
Click to expand...
That is the reason I prefer the Tune-Bot over the Drum Dial / Tama Tension Watch or Evans Torque Key and don't use those anymore.

My preference is tuning a 14" snare to 195 Hz, 13" to 205 Hz and 12" to 215 Hz.
Depending on the drum / head / music style, you can take it up or down from there.
 
eric_B said:
That is the reason I prefer the Tune-Bot over the Drum Dial / Tama Tension Watch or Evans Torque Key and don't use those anymore.

My preference is tuning a 14" snare to 195 Hz, 13" to 205 Hz and 12" to 215 Hz.
Depending on the drum / head / music style, you can take it up or down from there.
Click to expand...
That's interesting, regarding the Hz you aim for. I remember seeing your snare drum video, and all the 14s were tuned to 195Hz.

I kind of took a different approach. I like each snare drum to have a certain role, so to speak, so I tuned them to different tunings. I ended up with the Krupa at an E3, the Artist at G3, and the three others at A3. So, in Hz (roughly!) 165, 195, and 220,

I started with the 5X14 Sensitone, and checked to see where it was already tuned. It only took a little to dial it in to A (220 Hz). It was pretty close already. I started with the Sensitone because it is the drum I take as a spare to every gig. It is never a wrong choice. It isn't a unique sound, so it may not give me a special something for a given gig, but it always works. It's the "Supra" of my bunch.

Next was the Powertone, which I tuned the same, lug pitch-wise. This drum sounds Sooooooooo different at that tuning than the Sensitone! Meatier, warmer, more length to the note. Also a slightly different Hz reading for the fundamental, though it was still basically an A.

Next up was the Krupa, which I tune the lowest currently. It was the one tuned to E. I like this brass drum tuned lower because it gives a nice throaty sound, but the crimped snare beds help keep wild buzzing and ringing in check. That's one thing I've noticed about narrow or abrupt snare beds in general. They may not be the absolute most sensitive at low volume, but they are extremely useful for drumset tunes where you want a little more beef without slop.

The Artist was next, and it ended up in the middle. This is the one that ended up at 195 fundamental. It offers a warm, smooth, controlled woody tone. It is to the middle range what the Sensitone is to the top end, lol.

Last was my BoB. I have to say, I don't love this drum as much as a lot of people do, and it reminded me why. I keep wanting a lower beefier tone out of this one, kinda like @PorkPieGuy 's Black Beauty, but it just sounds sloppy and boingy to me down low. Too out of control. So I ended up tuning it up like the Powertone and Sensitone. It sounds like neither of them, having more of that brass honk, but it does sound good tuned high like this. It is also has very sensitive low-volume snare response in this range.

So anyway, there's my process from yesterday. :)

TL/DR: I didn't tune all the drums to the same pitches.
 
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Okay, you may all be tired of hearing me prattle on about the Tune-bot, but I have continued experimenting with it and made yet another discovery.

When I tune the 5x14 Sensitone to lug frequencies that should produce about an F3 fundamental, it comes very close to what's listed. (Within 1 Hz)

When I tuned the 6.5x14 Powertones to lug frequencies that should produce about an F#3, the fundamental actually turned out to be an F3 instead.

I know absolute pitch matters little with a snare drum, but it's an interesting phenomenon. The heads on the Rogers are tuned higher, but the fundamental is almost exactly the same as the Sensitone. The literature tells you that the lug frequencies will produce different fundamentals, depending on the drum, and I've discovered it's true!

I wish I had two identical snares in the two depths, because right now I'm dealing with two variables - shell material and shell depth.

Still, great fun and very informative. I'm still having fun with my TuneBot.
 
WallyY said:
Q- Do more overtones make a lower fundamental?
Click to expand...

No, I don't think so, not exactly. Every tone generates an overtone series. I suppose a lower fundamental generates more overtones that are within the human hearing range, and I do feel like lower tunings tend to sound more messy probably because you can hear more overtones more clearly. I also think higher tunings seem to have fewer overtones because the increased tension needed naturally mutes some of the higher overtones.
 
A question: did anyone ever notice that the Tune-Bot readings may vary according to the room where you use it?

When I did my recent 25 snare video, I tuned all the drums a day before in the (bed)room where I keep my drums.
But when I started recording a day later in my home studio - an adjacent bedroom - they were all around 2 Hz lower, like 193 Hz for the 14" snares instead of the 195 Hz I tuned them at. Of course some detuning can happen but for almost all25 drums seems odd.
So I had to tune them up again and when I checked some in the storage room, they were at 197 Hz!
So again 2 Hz difference between the rooms. Strange...
 
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Is there
eric_B said:
A question: did anyone ever notice that the Tune-Bot readings may vary according to the room where you use it?

When I did my recent 25 snare video, I tuned all the drums a day before in the (bed)room where I keep my drums.
But when I started recording in my home studio - an adjacent bedroom - they were all around 2 Hz lower, like 193 Hz for the 14" snares instead of the 195 Hz I tuned them at. Of course some detuning can happen but for almost 25 drums seems odd.
So I had to tune them up again and when I checked some in the storage room, they were at 197 Hz!
Strange...
Click to expand...
Might there be any appreciable temperature difference between the rooms? I'm wondering if the TuneBot's internal frequency reference may be drifting due to temperature - it's actually a pretty common problem, even for (so called) quartz referenced oscillators. Sorry, it's the electrical engineer side of me.... when you see a common problem spread over so many instances, I always check the test equipment. :geek:
 
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JoeVermont said:
Is there

Might there be any appreciable temperature difference between the rooms? I'm wondering if the TuneBot's internal frequency reference may be drifting due to temperature - it's actually a pretty common problem, even for (so called) quartz referenced oscillators. Sorry, it's the electrical engineer side of me.... when you see a common problem spread over so many instances, I always check the test equipment. :geek:
Click to expand...
Good point! I almost always have the doors of both rooms to the landing (if that's the right word) left open so the temperatures should be (close to) the same.

The rooms are different, the storage room has a lot of windows with a straight ceiling and the studio room has a tilted roof, acoustic foam stuck to that and only 2 small windows.
I kind of doubt if that should affect the Tune-Bot as I think its mic (probably a piezo?) picks up the closest sounds.
 
eric_B said:
A question: did anyone ever notice that the Tune-Bot readings may vary according to the room where you use it?
Click to expand...
I can check later today, by carrying a drum or two between rooms. I'll get back to you.
 
eric_B said:
A question: did anyone ever notice that the Tune-Bot readings may vary according to the room where you use it?

When I did my recent 25 snare video, I tuned all the drums a day before in the (bed)room where I keep my drums.
But when I started recording a day later in my home studio - an adjacent bedroom - they were all around 2 Hz lower, like 193 Hz for the 14" snares instead of the 195 Hz I tuned them at. Of course some detuning can happen but for almost all25 drums seems odd.
So I had to tune them up again and when I checked some in the storage room, they were at 197 Hz!
So again 2 Hz difference between the rooms. Strange...
Click to expand...
So, I did a very limited test and found that the fundamental *can* change based on the room or location of the drum in the room.

I just used one snare and did a very light tap (since I'm in an apartment) in each room. Most stayed the same or maybe 1Hz different, but when I went into the bathroom, which is by far the smallest room, the fundamental dropped by 3Hz.

I began to wonder if the proximity to the wall made a difference. I tried the drum in the original room, but moved next to a wall and the Hz dropped by one.

So the drum does not respond independent of its surroundings. I already suspected that, but never measured it.
 
Stroman said:
So, I did a very limited test and found that the fundamental *can* change based on the room or location of the drum in the room.

I just used one snare and did a very light tap (since I'm in an apartment) in each room. Most stayed the same or maybe 1Hz different, but when I went into the bathroom, which is by far the smallest room, the fundamental dropped by 3Hz.

I began to wonder if the proximity to the wall made a difference. I tried the drum in the original room, but moved next to a wall and the Hz dropped by one.

So the drum does not respond independent of its surroundings. I already suspected that, but never measured it.
Click to expand...
Alright, so that is similar to my experiences.
Maybe explainable but kind of strange as the TB is supposed to measure the frequency of the head so you would think the surroundings should not have much impact.
A thing to keep in mind.
 
eric_B said:
Alright, so that is similar to my experiences.
Maybe explainable but kind of strange as the TB is supposed to measure the frequency of the head so you would think the surroundings should not have much impact.
A thing to keep in mind.
Click to expand...
I kind of think the surroundings *do* impact the frequency of the head in some situations. I learned this when tuning a drum off of the bass drum mount. I often noticed it sounded a bit different on the mount, so I experimented.

I found that, if you lower a drum very close to the bass drum, the pitch lowers. Try it - hold the drum by the mount or the rim and tap it as you lower it closer and closer to a surface. At a certain proximity, the pitch starts to drop.

I was surprised the room had as much effect as it did, because with the tom experiment above, you have to get quite close to the surface.

On the other hand, 2-3hz is going to be an undetectable difference for most people, unless you are comparing side by side. I don't know that it makes a practical difference, even though it's a measurable difference.
 
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