Triger to midi delay vs Microphones lack of delay

elpol

Senior Member
I don't see how. The issue has nothing to do with the output of audio, just the input. :)
It sometimes will matter whether you monitor directly via your 002R (hardware), or through software monitoring. Latency doesn't only affect output.

I record audio to midi tracks; midi can have latency on playback too if your buffer settings are too high. I stopped having latency issues once I started using hardware monitoring, and kept my buffer settings lower. I'm not 100% sure how this applies to your case, but in the spirit of troubleshooting, you might consider it as something to try.

Perhaps someone on GearSlutz could offer some technical expertise too, there are some good folks over there.
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
Heh....I'd rather just dump all of this edrums and get additional microphones.

But then I'd need additional mic pre-amps, audio to digital converters, cables, stands, and suddenly a $1000 in new mics turns into $3000 of new gear, and that's just for lower-middle round mics.

Which is hard to deal with when I could spend $300 in a drum VST that will give me all the sounds of all the nicest drums recorded with the best mics in world class studios, and I could just trigger it off the gear I already own.
I think if i had any money i would get a drum VST for the kick drum and tom sounds. But for now it's a yamaha keyboard for the sounds.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
DED, given that the problem first occurred when you upgraded ProTools then that's the first port of call. I take it they have user groups on the web. If that doesn't shed any light then you could contact the company. I expect they'd be interested in the feedback and might know a fix.

If that gives no joy, you could see about borrowing or hiring a newer drum pad and testing it with your setup. If the problem remains with new gear and there's no gadgetry between the pad and the software other than the midi leads then the company ought to know about that too IMO - and do something about it.
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
DED, given that the problem first occurred when you upgraded ProTools then that's the first port of call. I take it they have user groups on the web. If that doesn't shed any light then you could contact the company. I expect they'd be interested in the feedback and might know a fix.

If that gives no joy, you could see about borrowing or hiring a newer drum pad and testing it with your setup. If the problem remains with new gear and there's no gadgetry between the pad and the software other than the midi leads then the company ought to know about that too IMO - and do something about it.
Also the forums might have a download link for an updated version which may have sorted the problem.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
It sometimes will matter whether you monitor directly via your 002R (hardware), or through software monitoring. Latency doesn't only affect output.

I record audio to midi tracks; midi can have latency on playback too if your buffer settings are too high. I stopped having latency issues once I started using hardware monitoring, and kept my buffer settings lower. I'm not 100% sure how this applies to your case, but in the spirit of troubleshooting, you might consider it as something to try.

Perhaps someone on GearSlutz could offer some technical expertise too, there are some good folks over there.
Come to think to think, you may have a point, not in that it's off, but that it becomes noticeable.

I'll try some experiments later one.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
DED, given that the problem first occurred when you upgraded ProTools then that's the first port of call. I take it they have user groups on the web. If that doesn't shed any light then you could contact the company. I expect they'd be interested in the feedback and might know a fix.

If that gives no joy, you could see about borrowing or hiring a newer drum pad and testing it with your setup. If the problem remains with new gear and there's no gadgetry between the pad and the software other than the midi leads then the company ought to know about that too IMO - and do something about it.
I posted an identical thread on the Protool forum,

I get mostly crickets over there.

While I've found their forum very useful at times, they can also be pretty snobby about which questions they'll answer for you. (Drummers are much nicer people).

I have found a vdrum forum, that's been helpful.
 

elpol

Senior Member
Come to think to think, you may have a point, not in that it's off, but that it becomes noticeable.

I'll try some experiments later one.
you certainly have nothing to lose by trying. IMO, the differences between software versions shouldn't be a problem, unless, there's been a (pretty much) global change to your preferences. That, or possibly some kind of functional driver issue between your MacBook Pro and your 002R.

I'm not familiar with the TD-10, however, it doesn't sound like that is the issue.

Like suggested earlier, I'd again recommend going over to the forums at www.gearslutz.com: They've been helpful to me many times!

Just to add something: While I don't believe that the TD-10 is the 'problem' - it's just as likely that it is adding a millisecond or so of latency, simply because of being an additional element in your signal path into ProTools. If ProTools 8 is processing Audio input more efficiently as you say, then this signal-path latency will only become more apparent. Your TD-10 is acting as a D/A converter as well, is it not?
 
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DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Just to add something: While I don't believe that the TD-10 is the 'problem' - it's just as likely that it is adding a millisecond or so of latency, simply because of being an additional element in your signal path into ProTools. If ProTools 8 is processing Audio input more efficiently as you say, then this signal-path latency will only become more apparent. Your TD-10 is acting as a D/A converter as well, is it not?
Yeah, the a drum module does 3 conversions every time you strike a pad:
Trigger to midi
Midi to digital
digital to Audio out

So there is no surprise there is some sort of delay compared to a mic, because it is a longer signal path. My posting of this question was more about how normal was the amount of delay I'm experiencing.

I found http://vdrums.com/forum/index.php and two people were kind enough to duplicate my test on their systems, and the results are pretty much the same, even though we all have different set ups.
 

elpol

Senior Member
Yeah, the a drum module does 3 conversions every time you strike a pad:
Trigger to midi
Midi to digital
digital to Audio out

So there is no surprise there is some sort of delay compared to a mic, because it is a longer signal path. My posting of this question was more about how normal was the amount of delay I'm experiencing.

I found http://vdrums.com/forum/index.php and two people were kind enough to duplicate my test on their systems, and the results are pretty much the same, even though we all have different set ups.
OK. Can I suggest to try the following as an experiment?

1. Move your mic closer to the source - i.e. mimic a 57's position 1-2" from the pad, as though you're miking a snare drum.

2. Switch to Software Monitoring - this will add a bit of latency to the audio you hear while playing. I'm guessing that you are monitoring via headphones to a click, right?

3. If you can, don't have the signal from the TD-10 in your monitoring. This will be strange, because you'll be essentially playing a 'practice pad' to a click.

The little bit of latency that software monitoring will add just might compensate enough for the latency you are experiencing. If I'm backwards with this, it will make it worse.

The only other thing to look into that I can think of, is if you can alter delay compensation settings within protools, either for audio or MIDI

Let us know how it goes!
 
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