Traditional Vs. Matched

rjvsmb

Senior Member
Alright, here is an exerpt from the Thomas Lang interview for the most recent issue of DRUM!


Arguably, on e of the most identifiable aspects of Lang’s playing to have come out of all those years of repetitive training is his masterful command of traditional grip, which he’s played throughout his entire career, which is why I almost choke when he drops this statement:

"One big thing I've changed, as of the first of this year, I will never play traditional grip again."

"I don't want to say never, but ... I've changed my grip after 37 years. I learned to play traditional. My teacher said, 'This is how you play the drums.' No argument, no discussion, this is it. So I did. And I've been playing like this all my life. And I've been playing very heavy music and loud music and complicated modern music "With this crutch, which is a joke, a curse. This makes no sense at all. It's a stupid solution to a stupid problem."

Yikes. I can hear the gasps of horror from jazz purists everywhere as he's saying this. But the truth is, Lang has just as much authority as anyone to make this kind of statement. ''All my life I've been working with all these stupid things, with the left hand, with the angle of the hand with relation to the forearm - the exact location. Everything from whipping motion to finger control to Gladstone, Moeller, you know, all this nonsense, for so many years, with such determination." In fact, Lang not only took trad grip to new technical extremes over the years, but became a veritable ambassador for it as a clinician.

Playing devil's advocate, I mention that I've heard people talk about how an asymmetrical grip forces a different kind of communication between the hands, which might just lead to more creative rhythms.

"That was my thing! I said that!" he blurts out. "I put that in my videos. Other people say that it's the exact other way around that you have to have the same exact starting point.
It doesn't matter. There are different philosophies. But for many years I was a big advocate of the traditional grip because I felt like I had to be, or I had to reason with myself.
I always wanted to be the guy who could play metal using traditional grip. But then I thought, Why? Only because I need to prove to myself that it's possible to play this? Because I've worked so hard on this grip, now I want to use it for everything? Even if it doesn't make sense? I'm defending this
stupid thing that makes no sense. And I'm defending it really well. I'm looking at myself, going, Yeah, this makes sense. "I am over that now."

The epiphany came when he began asking why, if this grip had any value outside of its survival as an historical artifact, didn't anyone play reverse grip with both hands? No one he talked to seemed to have a good answer for that. When he 'finally flipped the stick over for the 'first time, he was shocked with what he found. "I never practiced matched grip. Never, in my whole life. And honestly, when I decided to change, I tried to see, what can't I play using matched? And there was nothing. I can play everything I
can play traditional grip. I got the Stick Control book out, and I did all the flamadiddles and Swiss triplets and Shirley Murphys and cheese chu-chaddas. [laughs] It was zero effort. It just shows how easy it is, and how much more natural it is. So, from 'first of January on, I'm officially a matched-grip player."
 

Overg

Senior Member
Alright, here is an exerpt from the Thomas Lang interview for the most recent issue of DRUM!


Arguably, on e of the most identifiable aspects of Lang’s playing to have come out of all those years of repetitive training is his masterful command of traditional grip, which he’s played throughout his entire career, which is why I almost choke when he drops this statement:

"One big thing I've changed, as of the first of this year, I will never play traditional grip again."

"I don't want to say never, but ... I've changed my grip after 37 years. I learned to play traditional. My teacher said, 'This is how you play the drums.' No argument, no discussion, this is it. So I did. And I've been playing like this all my life. And I've been playing very heavy music and loud music and complicated modern music "With this crutch, which is a joke, a curse. This makes no sense at all. It's a stupid solution to a stupid problem."

Yikes. I can hear the gasps of horror from jazz purists everywhere as he's saying this. But the truth is, Lang has just as much authority as anyone to make this kind of statement. ''All my life I've been working with all these stupid things, with the left hand, with the angle of the hand with relation to the forearm - the exact location. Everything from whipping motion to finger control to Gladstone, Moeller, you know, all this nonsense, for so many years, with such determination." In fact, Lang not only took trad grip to new technical extremes over the years, but became a veritable ambassador for it as a clinician.

Playing devil's advocate, I mention that I've heard people talk about how an asymmetrical grip forces a different kind of communication between the hands, which might just lead to more creative rhythms.

.......

The epiphany came when he began asking why, if this grip had any value outside of its survival as an historical artifact, didn't anyone play reverse grip with both hands? No one he talked to seemed to have a good answer for that. When he 'finally flipped the stick over for the 'first time, he was shocked with what he found. "I never practiced matched grip. Never, in my whole life. And honestly, when I decided to change, I tried to see, what can't I play using matched? And there was nothing. I can play everything I
can play traditional grip. I got the Stick Control book out, and I did all the flamadiddles and Swiss triplets and Shirley Murphys and cheese chu-chaddas. [laughs] It was zero effort. It just shows how easy it is, and how much more natural it is. So, from 'first of January on, I'm officially a matched-grip player."
Well well... what we have here..
Every instrument has it's thing, and when you first start to play it , some times your teacher tell you, you have to hold that, or do that.. trust me, in the future you will see it benefit ,
Sure, you can see it very well in Guitar, I remember when I learned to play the guitar my teacher (in my first lesson..) told me that I hold the pick wrong, and I should change it immediately he explained the logic behind it, and told me, you will see that as time goes by, why you have to play like that,. and he was right..

But in this trad grip, there is no sense, there is logic, and definitely the more you play with it you see how nonsense it is.
Aside from the fact that is cool, and funny, and sometimes can give you nice sound..
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Then how do you play the same notes with the right hand? ( which is matched grip?)
I simply meant that I play better grace notes, flams and drags with my left hand in trad grip. My right hand always holds in American or French so I am used to playing all things with those grips.
I began as a trad drummer and only a few years ago I began to play matched so my left hand hasn't caught up to my right yet. I'm 53 now so my left may never be as good as my right when playing matched.
 

zakhopper316

Silver Member
This makes no sense whatsoever. Setting up the snare flat is no problem for drummers using matched grip. It doesn't have to be too high either, though a few drummers do find it comfortable at around belly button height or even higher. Also, how much bounce a drummer wants to get out of the snare drum has next to nothing to do with the genre of music they play.
yes it does, it allows you to play softer, faster with more bounce, something jazz
calls for. if the snare drum is flat and low ( by your knees) u cant help but hit at a or
close to a 45 degree angle, which makes you use more energy to get the amount of
bounce you would at a 90 degree angle, which will cause a louder note, you you hit
the drum at a 90 degree angle and your comfortable where your snare is then it does
not make a difference, but this is why some people play matched.

and think about it this way
if you play pop music you are not going to want as much bounce, because of
the slower tempos bounce strokes can sound messy which is why there isint to much
moll. tech. in pop
as if you play jazz because of the difference in tempo. in drum and bass, where angles of bounce are crucial, you will want to have perfect control of your bounce if you asked jo jo
or rabb if they would worry about their bounce stroke tech. if they played in a country
band, what do you think they would say?

and dont get this confused with me thinking that you should not practice all tech. and be a well rounded player, im just saying each genre does come with different skill sets
and concerns, if not would all be playing everything with ease.
 

Boomka

Platinum Member
my teacher told me its because jazz drummers want the flattest angle to the snare drum with both hands because the flatter you are the more bounce you have, and that many drummers find the set up required to achieve this in matched uncomfortable because the snare needs to be almost up to your belly button to achieve this in matched with-out ruining wrist technique....yes it does, it allows you to play softer, faster with more bounce, something jazz calls for.
Sorry, mate -- with no offense intended to you and all due respect to your teacher -- this is simply not true. Set up does effect how much rebound you can get from a drum - a matter of physics - but one can set up in an effective way using either Traditional or Matched Grip. Some of the greatest jazz players working today play with Matched Grip either exclusively or a good proportion of the time. And these guys are at the forefront of where jazz drumming is going (in many different directions).

Bill Stewart (amazing demonstration of French Grip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFVyia5x2uk&feature=related

Jack DeJohnette (who switched to match due to physical/medical problems) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2laQJWkxh0

Jeff Watts (uses both, but does just fine tearing into a Coltrane composition with matched grip in this clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjogmSPj5U&feature=related

Eric Harland (angles his snare drum away from him like you would a hand drum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pmMT3HTtjM

Jeff Ballard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-pi61QQUBw

Adam Deitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoGoYKmKxks&feature=related

Dave King (The Bad Plus): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OruzDa0He-g

Jorge Rossi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx0BMZ7P1SQ

Barry Elmes (under-known Canadian jazz master): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD5Hc8WaTEM

Billy Martin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4gHeoeVEkA&feature=related

Horacio Hernandez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92opssvylik&feature=fvw

Chris Dave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFpreczrWuY&feature=related

Terreon Gully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YhjRhPNKT8

Ari Hoenig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3jmPmlxVtQ&feature=related

Brian Blade (uses both): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdtC9WhnCg

I mean, that list includes a veritable "Who's Who" of big name modern jazz drummers playing in a wide range of contexts, and the evidence suggests they're getting plenty of dynamics, speed and bounce with overhand grips with both hands. You'll note that they set up in a variety of ways, some having the drum angled toward them, some with the drum flat and some with it angled away. Additionally, symphonic percussionists have been using matched grip - and achieving plenty of subtlety, speed and dynamics - on all kinds of instruments, including snare drum, for a long, long time. The musical demands on their technique are immense. Go watch a world-class timpanist if you want to see subtlty, speed and power all wrapped into one package, and I've never seen a timpanist who plays with traditional grip.

Here's a couple of top flight percussionists who use matched grip on snare drum:

Ted Atkatz: http://vicfirth.com/education/atkatz_pasic08.php

Tim Genis (who also plays timpani): http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/genis.php

By no means does this mean that I think that Matched Grip is superior to Traditional Grip. I'm predominantly a matched grip player, but there are somethings (particular brush patterns, for instance) that I play with traditional grip because it feels better and gives me a sound/feeling I want. They are both useful, and as Dave Weckl (a guy who uses both) would say, the choice is largely emotional and about comfort. They're tools.
 
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deryck

Member
I haven't practiced nearly as much with traditional as I have with Matched.. but here's what I have to say on the subject of using matched:

I found that it was easier to teach my left hand what to do. When I was having trouble getting the right motion down, the correct technique with my left, I just mirrored my right. The other thing I find is that I get more consistent rolls more easily with matched. I hate hearing myself play and having a huge sound difference between my closed and open rolls.
 

shadowlorde

Senior Member
Sorry, mate, and no offense intended, but this is simply not true. Some of the greatest jazz players working today play with matched grip either exclusively or a good proportion of the time. And these guys are at the forefront of where jazz drumming is going (in many different directions).

Bill Stewart (amazing demonstration of French Grip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFVyia5x2uk&feature=related

Jack DeJohnette (who switched to match due to physical/medical problems) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2laQJWkxh0

Jeff Watts (uses both, but does just fine tearing into a Coltrane composition with matched grip in this clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjogmSPj5U&feature=related

Eric Harland (angles his snare drum away from him like you would a hand drum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pmMT3HTtjM

Jeff Ballard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-pi61QQUBw

Adam Deitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoGoYKmKxks&feature=related

Dave King (The Bad Plus): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OruzDa0He-g

Jorge Rossi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx0BMZ7P1SQ

Barry Elmes (under-known Canadian jazz master): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD5Hc8WaTEM

Billy Martin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4gHeoeVEkA&feature=related

Horacio Hernandez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92opssvylik&feature=fvw

Chris Dave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFpreczrWuY&feature=related

Terreon Gully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YhjRhPNKT8

Ari Hoenig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3jmPmlxVtQ&feature=related

Brian Blade (uses both): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdtC9WhnCg

I mean, that list includes a veritable "Who's Who" of big name modern jazz drummers playing in a wide range of contexts, and the evidence suggests they're getting plenty of dynamics, speed and bounce with overhand grips with both hands. Additionally, symphonic percussionists have been using matched grip - and achieving plenty of subtlety, speed and dynamics - on all kinds of instruments, including snare drum, for a long, long time. The musical demands on their technique are immense. Go watch a world-class timpanist if you want to see subtlty, speed and power all wrapped into one package, and I've never seen a timpanist who plays with traditional grip.

Here's a couple of top flight percussionists who use matched grip on snare drum:

Ted Atkatz: http://vicfirth.com/education/atkatz_pasic08.php

Tim Genis (who also plays timpani): http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/genis.php

By no means does this mean that I think that Matched Grip is superior to Traditional Grip. I'm predominantly a matched grip player, but there are somethings (particular brush patterns, for instance) that I play with traditional grip because it feels better and gives me a sound/feeling I want. They are both useful, and as Dave Weckl (a guy who uses both) would say, the choice is largely emotional and about comfort. They're tools.



id have to say that's pretty much an /thread comment.

both are good play what works for you. try both and decide. it's like having 2 cars .. both have the same specs .. the only difference is that 1 is that they are 2 different brands and different colors .. but run the same .. sometimes you want to drive the blue car, sometimes the red one.
 

zakhopper316

Silver Member
Sorry, mate -- with no offense intended to you and all due respect to your teacher -- this is simply not true. Set up does effect how much rebound you can get from a drum - a matter of physics - but one can set up in an effective way using either Traditional or Matched Grip. Some of the greatest jazz players working today play with Matched Grip either exclusively or a good proportion of the time. And these guys are at the forefront of where jazz drumming is going (in many different directions).

Bill Stewart (amazing demonstration of French Grip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFVyia5x2uk&feature=related

Jack DeJohnette (who switched to match due to physical/medical problems) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2laQJWkxh0

Jeff Watts (uses both, but does just fine tearing into a Coltrane composition with matched grip in this clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjogmSPj5U&feature=related

Eric Harland (angles his snare drum away from him like you would a hand drum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pmMT3HTtjM

Jeff Ballard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-pi61QQUBw

Adam Deitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoGoYKmKxks&feature=related

Dave King (The Bad Plus): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OruzDa0He-g

Jorge Rossi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx0BMZ7P1SQ

Barry Elmes (under-known Canadian jazz master): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD5Hc8WaTEM

Billy Martin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4gHeoeVEkA&feature=related

Horacio Hernandez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92opssvylik&feature=fvw

Chris Dave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFpreczrWuY&feature=related

Terreon Gully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YhjRhPNKT8

Ari Hoenig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3jmPmlxVtQ&feature=related

Brian Blade (uses both): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdtC9WhnCg

I mean, that list includes a veritable "Who's Who" of big name modern jazz drummers playing in a wide range of contexts, and the evidence suggests they're getting plenty of dynamics, speed and bounce with overhand grips with both hands. You'll note that they set up in a variety of ways, some having the drum angled toward them, some with the drum flat and some with it angled away. Additionally, symphonic percussionists have been using matched grip - and achieving plenty of subtlety, speed and dynamics - on all kinds of instruments, including snare drum, for a long, long time. The musical demands on their technique are immense. Go watch a world-class timpanist if you want to see subtlty, speed and power all wrapped into one package, and I've never seen a timpanist who plays with traditional grip.

Here's a couple of top flight percussionists who use matched grip on snare drum:

Ted Atkatz: http://vicfirth.com/education/atkatz_pasic08.php

Tim Genis (who also plays timpani): http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/genis.php

By no means does this mean that I think that Matched Grip is superior to Traditional Grip. I'm predominantly a matched grip player, but there are somethings (particular brush patterns, for instance) that I play with traditional grip because it feels better and gives me a sound/feeling I want. They are both useful, and as Dave Weckl (a guy who uses both) would say, the choice is largely emotional and about comfort. They're tools.
ask any other experienced drummer why they don't have their toms set at extreme angles, and all those drummers are hitting at near 90 degree angles!! its right in front of your eyes, it doesn't matter what grip, as long as your comfortable to hit at 90 degrees. and yes they set up their sets to fit their bodies, hough contorts their bodies to fit a set, its the other way around dude.

well we just have to agree to disagree because its a known fact to many drummers that the closer to 90 degrees you hit the drum then more bounce you will achieve,
that IS physics, i can go into the way it works for you.

imagine bouncing a ball on a flat surface at 45 degrees, where is the ball going to go? 45 degrees the other way, now if you bounce the ball at a 90 degree angle (down) the ball will come back up to your hand at the same 90 degree angle, now use the same law of physics to the tip of you drum stick, because the tip is attached to the stick, when you bounce it at a 45 degree angle the sticks energy will go outward, and you will also expend some energy holding the stick or else its weight will make it fall to the ground. now if you hit a drum at a 90 degree angle not only will it bounce higher you can have no grip on the stick only letting it rest on your finger and it wont fly out it will come up and slip through your hand at another 90 degree angle,

im sorry if you don't understand that but anyone with a college level physics class would no this principle.

and ill say again this has nothing to do with what grip u use, its just correct tech.

so if there is any kids reading this no matter what you want to hit the stick at a 90 degree angle, especially for the first stroke of the moeller tech.
 

Boomka

Platinum Member
ask any other experienced drummer why they don't have their toms set at extreme angles, and all those drummers are hitting at near 90 degree angles!! its right in front of your eyes, it doesn't matter what grip, as long as your comfortable to hit at 90 degrees. and yes they set up their sets to fit their bodies, hough contorts their bodies to fit a set, its the other way around dude.
Okay, dude, I'll ask them. But first, let's clarify a few things. First, I think you've entirely missed my point. I wasn't taking issue with the notion that having the drum/cymbal placed at the floor of your stroke (i.e. so that the stick is parallel with the surface at the end of the stroke) gives you the greatest amount of rebound. Of course it does. I'm the last guy who is going to argue against physics. If you read again, you'll note I said, "Set up does effect how much rebound you can get from a drum - a matter of physics - but one can set up in an effective way using either Traditional or Matched Grip." So let's put that to rest. We're in agreement on the need to apply basic physics to a drum stroke.


I was taking issue with (what I believed to be) your assertion that traditional grip is better suited to this and is better for playing jazz. Your contention (or was it your teacher's?) was that many Matched Grip drummers find it "uncomfortable" to get their kits set up for maximum rebound without ruining wrist technique. I'll quote your statement again, and if I'm misinterpreting you (it seems that Fiery had the same problem) please clarify.

You wrote,

(Traditional Grip is) not out dated, my teacher told me its because jazz drummers want the flattest angle to the snare drum with both hands because the flatter you are the more bounce you have, and that many drummers find the set up required to achieve this in matched uncomfortable because the snare needs to be almost up to your belly button to achieve this in matched with-out ruining wrist technique.
And you continued in another post,

...(Traditional Grip) allows you to play softer, faster with more bounce, something jazz calls for.
Now, I've added in a subject (Traditional Grip) in both statements because you failed to provide one and I had to assume that this is what you were speaking about. Forgive me if I've misunderstood you. If I have, please clarify. But assuming you were speaking about Traditional Grip, the point of my response to you was that the evidence of my own experience, plus the evidence embodied in the players I listed counters both theories fairly strongly. I've been playing jazz with matched grip for decades without it being uncomfortable. Do the guys in the videos look uncomfortable to you? Do they seem to be failing to get the requisite softness, bounce and speed necessary for jazz playing?
 
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zakhopper316

Silver Member
Okay, dude, I'll ask them. But first, let's clarify a few things. First, I think you've entirely missed my point. I wasn't taking issue with the notion that having the drum/cymbal placed at the floor of your stroke (i.e. so that the stick is parallel with the surface at the end of the stroke) gives you the greatest amount of rebound. Of course it does. I'm the last guy who is going to argue against physics. If you read again, you'll note I said, "Set up does effect how much rebound you can get from a drum - a matter of physics - but one can set up in an effective way using either Traditional or Matched Grip." So let's put that to rest. We're in agreement on the need to apply basic physics to a drum stroke.


I was taking issue with (what I believed to be) your assertion that traditional grip is better suited to this and is better for playing jazz. Your contention (or was it your teacher's?) was that many Matched Grip drummers find it "uncomfortable" to get their kits set up for maximum rebound without ruining wrist technique. I'll quote your statement again, and if I'm misinterpreting you (it seems that Fiery had the same problem) please clarify.

You wrote,



And you continued in another post,



Now, I've added in a subject (Traditional Grip) in both statements because you failed to provide one and I had to assume that this is what you were speaking about. Forgive me if I've misunderstood you. If I have, please clarify. But assuming you were speaking about Traditional Grip, the point of my response to you was that the evidence of my own experience, plus the evidence embodied in the players I listed counters both theories fairly strongly. I've been playing jazz with matched grip for decades without it being uncomfortable. Do the guys in the videos look uncomfortable to you? Do they seem to be failing to get the requisite softness, bounce and speed necessary for jazz playing?
trad. is not better or worse for this its all the same, but if you have your kit set up in a way that its uncomfortable to get the correct angle, and you dont want to change your set up, you can try changing grips and see what happens, or you could just change your set up,

and my teacher was using jazz drummers as en example because he is my jazz teacher and im a jazz student, but really he just could have said drummers, and what he said was not exactly how i said it, but what he meant was some drummers like to play trad, because they like having their kit (mainly the snare) set up in a way that traditional grip will achieve the best rebound, other drummers play matched because they are comfortable with their kit set up in a way that matched grip will achieve the most rebound, he listed other reasons such as comfort, style of music, and a few others, its just one of the many reasons why SOME drummers play one or the other. It has nothing to do with one being better then the other.

and i still believe that different genres call for different set ups, and techniques. and all the other quote you posted is out of the context of not having a set up that works in matched so trad will be faster is goes both ways

i hope we cleared some things up.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
...but what he meant was some drummers like to play trad, because they like having their kit (mainly the snare) set up in a way that traditional grip will achieve the best rebound, other drummers...
They use a grip because it matches the way they like to set up their kit, and that's the reason for the grip? That's some pretty circular stuff there! I never realized that I play matched because I don't like my snare drum angled away from me...
 

zakhopper316

Silver Member
its one of the reasons, for me at-least, and it only counts if you are functional with both grips, i really like having my snare tilted in and towards the bass drum because i can get to my tom faster, and i also like my high tom tilted in a bit, and im most comfortable with my snare hight, the high edge of the snare from my tilt about 2 inches above my inner thy, and the low end about 2 inches below my knee facing the bass drum, i cant play this set up with matched, i do pay matched some times but i always have to flatten my snare , raise it, and decrease the in angle on my high tomb.

im more comfortable the other way, that why i play traditional more often, if i was more comfortable with a higher flat snare ect. i would play matched more, its just preference.

and i don't know, when my drum teacher said his explanation it made sense to me, and i still does i must be saying something wrong if you guys dont get it

to each is own, sure not everyone experience this issue when playing or setting up their kit, be me and my drum teach do
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
its one of the reasons, for me at-least, and it only counts if you are functional with both grips, i really like having my snare tilted in and towards the bass drum because i can get to my tom faster, and i also like my high tom tilted in a bit, and im most comfortable with my snare hight, the high edge of the snare from my tilt about 2 inches above my inner thy, and the low end about 2 inches below my knee facing the bass drum, i cant play this set up with matched, i do pay matched some times but i always have to flatten my snare , raise it, and decrease the in angle on my high tomb.

im more comfortable the other way, that why i play traditional more often, if i was more comfortable with a higher flat snare ect. i would play matched more, its just preference.

and i don't know, when my drum teacher said his explanation it made sense to me, and i still does i must be saying something wrong if you guys dont get it

to each is own, sure not everyone experience this issue when playing or setting up their kit, be me and my drum teach do
Im a fan of setting the snare tilted with the far side set down away from you and the back of the snare should be slightly higher than your thighs for best playing performance no matter what grip that you are using.
The issues of grip and snare position will never be resolved.
Grunterstad said it best when he said in the beginning of this thread "Whatever feels good to you and gets you around the drum set with ease is the best for you."
 
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zakhopper316

Silver Member
agreed to all,

now......what's up with stick length, i have a an old pair of extremely long 7a's i used to play with about a year ago, my second most recent pare is a pair of zildjian 5bs, they where a little shorter then the 7a's, now im not usually a sucker for signature sticks,but after trying the jojo mayer sig. stick i went for, it is the shortest stick i have ever played, and i do feel i have lost some big bound feel i get from longer sticks but they felt really good, today i pulled out the old 7a's and now im in between buying new sticks, longer ones, i play jazz and you think 7a or 5a but jojo's stick works well for jazz surprisingly.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
agreed to all,

now......what's up with stick length, i have a an old pair of extremely long 7a's i used to play with about a year ago, my second most recent pare is a pair of zildjian 5bs, they where a little shorter then the 7a's, now im not usually a sucker for signature sticks,but after trying the jojo mayer sig. stick i went for, it is the shortest stick i have ever played, and i do feel i have lost some big bound feel i get from longer sticks but they felt really good, today i pulled out the old 7a's and now im in between buying new sticks, longer ones, i play jazz and you think 7a or 5a but jojo's stick works well for jazz surprisingly.
There is no correct stick for jazz or any other genre. I know jazz drummers that use both Long and Short, Heavy and Light, Thick and Thin.
I use 7a and 5a myself. Zildjian and Vater. Wood and plastic tipped.
I switch them up when I feel like it just as with my grip.
 

zakhopper316

Silver Member
There is no correct stick for jazz or any other genre. I know jazz drummers that use both Long and Short, Heavy and Light, Thick and Thin.
I use 7a and 5a myself. Zildjian and Vater. Wood and plastic tipped.
I switch them up when I feel like it just as with my grip.
i dont know anyone who plays jazz with a 0.7 diameter stick
 
Good comments - Bob - well done. Being multi-functional and multi-purpose with different hand grips, gives a much better scope.

I play mainly Trad. I use matched primarily for open handed playing.
Grace notes and flam playing is better with Trad.
When I play crossed handed on my hats, the Trad grip keeps my left hand out of the way. I can reach from my snare to my small rack tom much easier. I can also go to the floor tom with my Trad left hand very fast.
I also switch to matched sometimes when playing a harder rock tune.
I can lay down a fat 2 and 4 on the snare with matched. Snare rim shots work well with matched grip too.
I think that every drummer should use both grips.
I also use the French Grip on my ride frequently for Jazzy tunes.
Being fluent in grips is a good thing. It adds color to your performance.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
I play a customized thumb oriented traditional grip because I feel it works best for me. I also think that I have better control of dynamics this way, I shade better, the hi-hat stuff is better etc. I also play matched for some things and it constitutes about 15% of my stuff. It may or may not be the same for you but that's how I feel about it. To me grip is a personal thing. But I will say that in no way does traditional get in the way of power issues. Still if you feel better with matched--- then go for it.

You know, I've seen these kinds of threads often over the years, and sure everyone is entitled to their opinions about this. But I've never entirely understood these people who go on and on about how one particular grip is stupid, bad etc, etc. I've probably seen that trad grip Revolutionary war quote a million times, followed by the big attack, followed by the I've never been any good at trad grip but--- followed then about some personality indictment regarding Buddy Rich, based on some strange anger caused by a 35 year old video. I just don't see the point.

I remember Roy Haynes saying that he truly believed /due to all the early guys being indoctrinated in trad grip/ that they developed certain unique and beneficial ways of playing that he at least, believed enhanced the jazz drum style. Now I don't know exactly what specifically he meant by that, but if Roy Haynes said it, I'm going to at least going to investigate further, as well as also visibly notice how he often plays some matched grip too, and it certainly wasn't matched.

After watching a thousand videos of trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie puffing out his cheeks like a blowfish, I'm pretty convinced that the grip you use is what you make of it. One of the reasons I've never done DCI was because of corps instructors who couldn't get that everyone need not have identical grips to perform at their best. When they would talk to me, and I would come out for their invitational, the first thing they wanted to do was change my grip, and it was really for nothing more than the corps' GE score. These were the same guys who also went after me back in the speed drum days claiming that my trad grip wasn't correct, when in truth it was doing everything I wanted it to do, AND also lecture about how drums are always in a constant state of evolution, but then become all conventional when discussing my new way of playing trad. After a while you just wonder if it's just not all a game---with your best bet being to ignore and simply do your thing.

The best players I know can play on the strange drum set provided, with the sticks someone just handed them, and it might be 10 minutes in before they even notice tom angles. Sometimes I think we just obsess too much to cover as opposed to just playing the drums.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
.............claiming that my trad grip wasn't correct, when in truth it was doing everything I wanted it to do..............
Well said. Pretty much sums up all I've ever asked of whatever grip (or technique, for that matter) I choose to use......"it was doing everything I wanted it to do."


And the "anger" Rich vids were posted to prove the point that just because Buddy says/does something, may not neccessarily make it right for everyone (following on from the Buddy vid that was used to make a point on his trad grip views). I thought their addition in that context of the conversation highlighted a good point.........clearly not.
 
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