Stroman
Diamond Member
I thought about Gavin after I posted!
Top Albums For Drum Sounds
- Thread starter Totigerus
- Start date
Ensnared!
Active Member
Thanks for this!Any RVG Blue Note lp
“I don't see his drum sound talked about much. Which is funny, because, although it too is somewhat inconsistent (Billy Higgins sounds totally different from record to record), the one thing that I've felt Van Gelder really captured when almost nobody else was doing it was the full power of the drumkit.
The way he recorded Tony Williams and Elvin Jones and Max Roach - those recordings sound like real drumkits, and the simulated sound of a lot of drum recordings has always been a pet peeve of mine (and carries on to even the jazz recordings of the 2000s, by the way). Inevitably, when I want to hear a fifties or sixties recording with 'real' drums, I put on something RVG did.”
Rudy Van Gelder's drum sound?
Rudy had a very consistent piano sound, and it tends to arouse strong opinions in both directions - for balance's sake, let's say it served certain...forums.stevehoffman.tv
I'm an aging
( blues/rock/Country) guitar player that in the early 2000's, finally 'caught up' to listening to the Golden Era of Jazz ( especially say, late '40's- early '60's).
And I just love trying to get familiar with all the players
- There is a lot of air ( lack of electric instruments?) in this era, so you can hear what everyone is doing- drums included!
Frank Godiva
Active Member
“First and foremost, Van Gelder used techniques including close miking, peak limiting, and tape saturation that gave the music a substantial sense of immediacy. Rudy’s role in the historical development of close miking is particularly evident. By modern standards, microphone techniques were still underdeveloped in the late 1940s. As result, only vocalists and instrumental soloists ever sounded “close” to the listener. For smaller jazz groups, this included brass, reeds, and occasionally guitar and piano. Drums and bass were universally slighted in the overall mix, leaving them sounding distant and fuzzy on most records.
It wasn’t until the early 1950s that close miking became a common practice. The technique involved each instrument being assigned their own dedicated microphone, which greatly enhanced the overall presence and realism of recordings. Not only did Rudy help popularize this new technique, he also took it a step further than other engineers by using his microphones in a way that would effectively bring the listener even closer to the musicians. This gave his recordings a strong sense of energy that remains a unique signifier of his sound to this day.”
The Van Gelder Sound: Characteristics – RVG Legacy
rvglegacy.org
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
Well Van Gelder was very secretive, had some of his techniques hidden under cloth and wouldn't let the musicians touch anything or enquire.
In the 1960's it was still common to have far micing on drums, maybe two or three mics capturing an overall impression of the drums, so quite a roomy sound and very little bass drum for example. Really in terms of rock and pop it was mostly Geoff Emerick who pioneered close micing of Ringo's drums in order to achieve a much more punchy sound. Also with the advent of larger recording consoles and more tracks on tape machines. They kept adding mics on the sessions, but also deadened the drums with pillows, tea towels and took heads off, in order to control the extra resonance.
If Van Gelder was close micing drums in the 1950's, it certainly wasn't 'common practice' in rock and pop and only started to be adopted in the late 60's as I say with more mic inputs in the control room and more tape tracks to pay with.
In the 1960's it was still common to have far micing on drums, maybe two or three mics capturing an overall impression of the drums, so quite a roomy sound and very little bass drum for example. Really in terms of rock and pop it was mostly Geoff Emerick who pioneered close micing of Ringo's drums in order to achieve a much more punchy sound. Also with the advent of larger recording consoles and more tracks on tape machines. They kept adding mics on the sessions, but also deadened the drums with pillows, tea towels and took heads off, in order to control the extra resonance.
If Van Gelder was close micing drums in the 1950's, it certainly wasn't 'common practice' in rock and pop and only started to be adopted in the late 60's as I say with more mic inputs in the control room and more tape tracks to pay with.
Short version: “like” recordings that (try to) capture the real sound of the kit; “dislike” kits that (try to) sound like a recording and/or a drum machine.
So my favourites are mostly all from 60s (the aforementioned RVG jazz, Floyd at Pompeii, The Who…), 70s (Cobham, Williams, Moon, Bonham, Peart, the West Coast studio sounds, the punk/new wave drummers like Copeland & Burke…) and a few from the earliest part of the 80s (mostly the same guys as in the late 70s).
To my taste the 80s were when things went off.
So my favourites are mostly all from 60s (the aforementioned RVG jazz, Floyd at Pompeii, The Who…), 70s (Cobham, Williams, Moon, Bonham, Peart, the West Coast studio sounds, the punk/new wave drummers like Copeland & Burke…) and a few from the earliest part of the 80s (mostly the same guys as in the late 70s).
To my taste the 80s were when things went off.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
I'm going through my collection and it occurs to me that I love most of the drum sounds on my albums 
After seeing drummers churn it out on pizza boxes (Gadd) and kiddy kits (Grohl), I think anything can sound good if struck just right. Good instruments are more forgiving.
Nick Mason's ultra tasty tones on DSOTM and WYWH. Bill Bruford with Crimson, and his solo albums.
Pierre van der Linden on Moving Waves. Bass drum from heaven.
Gong's Pierre Moerlen on Shamal (produced by Nick Mason).
Beck's drummers often have great drum sounds. Cozy. Richard Bailey on BBB. Narada on Wired.
John Marshall on Soft machine's Bundles, but I may be biased because I saw him with Eberhart Weber and his drum sound was just incredible at that concert.
Tony Smith on John McLaughlin's Electric Dreams - but he also sounded better live.
After seeing drummers churn it out on pizza boxes (Gadd) and kiddy kits (Grohl), I think anything can sound good if struck just right. Good instruments are more forgiving.
Nick Mason's ultra tasty tones on DSOTM and WYWH. Bill Bruford with Crimson, and his solo albums.
Pierre van der Linden on Moving Waves. Bass drum from heaven.
Gong's Pierre Moerlen on Shamal (produced by Nick Mason).
Beck's drummers often have great drum sounds. Cozy. Richard Bailey on BBB. Narada on Wired.
John Marshall on Soft machine's Bundles, but I may be biased because I saw him with Eberhart Weber and his drum sound was just incredible at that concert.
Tony Smith on John McLaughlin's Electric Dreams - but he also sounded better live.
Stx'n'Bonze
Member
I am not a jazz guy, but I find that some jazz trio recordings capture the room so beautifully - like your right there…
I was in line at a coffee shop and a song was on the overheads and the snare sound immediately stood out to me.
Come to find out it was this song... I think it is one of the best sounding snares I have ever heard. Being an older live recording, it’s incredible. Anyone know what kind of snare he used?
I was in line at a coffee shop and a song was on the overheads and the snare sound immediately stood out to me.
Come to find out it was this song... I think it is one of the best sounding snares I have ever heard. Being an older live recording, it’s incredible. Anyone know what kind of snare he used?
I agree with Billy Cobhams' Spectrum - when that record came out everything changed. That said (written?) probably my favorite recorded tom sound is Gino Vanilla's "Brother to Brother". The closest I ever heard to that sound live was a set of Pearl Vari-pitch toms with the mic up in the shell.
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
ok...don't want to read the lists yet so as not to taint my choices
the #1 album that always jumps out for me in this question is
Blood Sugar, Sex, Magik by the Chilli Peppers
the rest is a big pile of seconds that I can't really separate....hmmm.....
Barenaked Ladies - Born On A Pirate Ship
Dave Mathews Band - Crash
The Police - Ghost In The Machine
Dredg - Catch Without Arms
Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power
Prong - Cleansing
Rush - Moving Pictures
Armored Saint - Delirious Nomad
Strike Anywhere - Change Is A Sound
....and also, my brain goes right do Best drum sound as defined by genre requirements. I can't think of one album that has the ultimate definition of a drum sound....the ones listed above are sort of "top of the genre" to me....but man, such a tought question to answer thoroughly
the #1 album that always jumps out for me in this question is
Blood Sugar, Sex, Magik by the Chilli Peppers
the rest is a big pile of seconds that I can't really separate....hmmm.....
Barenaked Ladies - Born On A Pirate Ship
Dave Mathews Band - Crash
The Police - Ghost In The Machine
Dredg - Catch Without Arms
Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power
Prong - Cleansing
Rush - Moving Pictures
Armored Saint - Delirious Nomad
Strike Anywhere - Change Is A Sound
....and also, my brain goes right do Best drum sound as defined by genre requirements. I can't think of one album that has the ultimate definition of a drum sound....the ones listed above are sort of "top of the genre" to me....but man, such a tought question to answer thoroughly
doggyd69b
Platinum Member
Funny because the reason I bought Steven Slate Drums years ago was because they had all those kits basically as if you were literally playing the kit he recorded and it did sounded pretty much identical, so much so that when I covered one of those songs my drums disappeared and I had to switch drum sounds to hear myself.
Now I’m trying to recreate artist presets using Superior drummer 3. It is hard but when you achieve a certain sound you have spent some time tweaking the raw drums, adding layers and effects you now learned quite a bit on how to use effects to achieve things, same effects that can be used when recording real drums. I’m having lots of fun. I need to reactivate Steven Slate….
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Totigerus
Well-known Member
thanks for this amazing recommendation! It reminds me of Pages mixed with a little bit of Bee Gees BG vox. Plus jazz fusion! Its awesome!
averageguy
Junior Member
Kiss - Creatures Of The Night (Eric Carr).
King Diamond - Them (Mikkey Dee).
M Crue - Shout At The Devil (and I'm not even that big of Crue fan).
And say what you want about him, but Mick Brown consistently got great drum sounds on almost all of the Dokken records, and the first 2 Lynch Mob albums as well in the very early 90's.
I also thought Vinny Appice got great drum sounds on the Sabbath and Dio stuff he played on.
King Diamond - Them (Mikkey Dee).
M Crue - Shout At The Devil (and I'm not even that big of Crue fan).
And say what you want about him, but Mick Brown consistently got great drum sounds on almost all of the Dokken records, and the first 2 Lynch Mob albums as well in the very early 90's.
I also thought Vinny Appice got great drum sounds on the Sabbath and Dio stuff he played on.
prodigy4299
Member
As a 90's kid, this is absolutely my choice as well. Take any track off BSSM and you'll immediately recognize it's from that album.
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
yep...and the sounds are huge, and gritty in the right way. Perfect vibe for that album
I need to add The Brown Album by Primus as well...as an addition to my list. The drum sounds on that album are so sloppy...in the BEST way. I feel like both BSSM and The Brown A;lbum's feel are totally defined by the drum sounds and playing first....
