Top 5 Fav Drummers (inspirational to your style)

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Okay, I see what you mean. I was thinking more of his earlier stuff. He definitely an original approach.
Looking back, I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. Sorry for the confusion.

But still, he's an interesting topic. Not a guy many drummers talk about. As you said, definitely an original approach.

I was never a huge INXS fan, but "Don't Change" has always been a favorite pop tune. I did have Kick on tape when it was new. I used to put on first thing in the morning to "kick" start my day. hehe. A couple of years ago, my wife and I went back and picked up a bunch of their stuff on CD.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
UFF, you're probably right about Chicago. When they took out the jazzy and edgy bits they poured out the beer and only offered up froth. I don't think losing the personality of Danny's drumming helped either.
I actually think the fall of that band artistically was a lot earlier than some say.

IMO---The first 3 Chicago albums were as good as anything that ever went down in rock. I remember when I was 10 or so going into my old man's LP collection and finding Chicago Transist Authority with Introduction, Beginnings, Questions 67 and 68. That band was great and because of guitarist Terry Kath, sounded more like a rock band as opposed to Blood Sweat and Tears' polished horn section and more careful sound...although I thought David Clayton Thomas was an amazing singer and I liked Seraphine and Columby just about equally.

Then I think it went downhill. That Carnegie Hall set was lousy and sloppy, then Chicago V had that awful Saturday in the Park song which I think more than anything else turned those guys into a beach band. But I have the first 3 albums and will always keep them. Seraphine sounds great on them. I always thought that when Buddy Rich was trying rock he was thinking in Seraphine terms, which is funny seeing as how Seraphine had actually adapted the Rich style to fit to a rock format. I always thought that whole thing was pretty ironic.
 

0neyellowdrum

Senior Member
I actually think the fall of that band artistically was a lot earlier than some say.

IMO---The first 3 Chicago albums were as good as anything that ever went down in rock. I remember when I was 10 or so going into my old man's LP collection and finding Chicago Transist Authority with Introduction, Beginnings, Questions 67 and 68. That band was great and because of guitarist Terry Kath, sounded more like a rock band as opposed to Blood Sweat and Tears' polished horn section and more careful sound...although I thought David Clayton Thomas was an amazing singer and I liked Seraphine and Columby just about equally.

Then I think it went downhill. That Carnegie Hall set was lousy and sloppy, then Chicago V had that awful Saturday in the Park song which I think more than anything else turned those guys into a beach band. But I have the first 3 albums and will always keep them. Seraphine sounds great on them. I always thought that when Buddy Rich was trying rock he was thinking in Seraphine terms, which is funny seeing as how Seraphine had actually adapted the Rich style to fit to a rock format. I always thought that whole thing was pretty ironic.
I have a school friend, Marc Bonilla, who plays with Danny and CTA. Marc also plays and tours with Keith Emerson. There are more vids on Marc's webspage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqPkzb_3rWA

http://marcbonilla.com
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
But still, he's an interesting topic. Not a guy many drummers talk about. As you said, definitely an original approach.
Yep. I guess part of it's because he Australian (ie. barely exists in the northern hemisphere).

I'm enjoying this chat. It's one thing to mention a drummer/drummers, another to talk about their angle. For instance, I mention Bill Bruford as an influence. Do I sound remotely like him? I wish. But many of the drum parts I worked out when I was young wouldn't have been the same if not for him (I don't get a chance to be kooky in my current band). He showed me about the idea of displacing backbeats and to try looking past the first, most obvious idea that comes to you.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I actually think the fall of that band artistically was a lot earlier than some say.

IMO---The first 3 Chicago albums were as good as anything that ever went down in rock. I remember when I was 10 or so going into my old man's LP collection and finding Chicago Transist Authority with Introduction, Beginnings, Questions 67 and 68. That band was great and because of guitarist Terry Kath, sounded more like a rock band
Agree. Questions and Beginnings are the ones that did it for me too. Losing Terry Kath in the late 70s was a huge blow. At times the Terry / Danny dynamic reminded me of the Jimi / Mitch combo. The rock edge worked great with the brash horns - quite unique. BB&S were another with awesome raves in the middle of songs.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Yep. I guess part of it's because he Australian (ie. barely exists in the northern hemisphere).

I'm enjoying this chat. It's one thing to mention a drummer/drummers, another to talk about their angle. For instance, I mention Bill Bruford as an influence. Do I sound remotely like him? I wish. But many of the drum parts I worked out when I was young wouldn't have been the same if not for him (I don't get a chance to be kooky in my current band). He showed me about the idea of displacing backbeats and to try looking past the first, most obvious idea that comes to you.
I don't think being Australian has anything to do with it.

INXS were major stars here. I know plenty of (non-drummers) people who worship the band. They were major MTV stars during MTV's hey-day.

But as I said, the thought of "I need to impress other drummers" never crossed his mind, and so, most drummers weren't impressed (for lack of a better term).

Also, they tend to be lumped in as part of the 80's New Wave scene, which most people associated with synths and drum machines. And thus, I think, a lot of people tend to over look the drummers who were involved in those bands. The Cars were a huge band, USA based (Boston to be exact), and yet, how many drummer can name their stick man off the top of their head? Although Jon was (in my opinion) more creative.
 

Skitch

Pioneer Member
1.) Manu Katche
2.) Phil Gould - Level 42
3.) Vinnie Colaiuta
4.) Steve Gadd/Jeff Porcarro
5.) Steve Smith/Gregg Bisonette

I am starting to study Gregg Bisonette more closely as I am hooked on the David Lee Roth song "Elephant Gun". I use this disc to shut up all of the young guitar players who think that their crap doesn't stink. It usually begins with listening to Yankee Rose, which they immediately turn their nose up at. Then........."Shy Boy" comes on and the hands reach for the repeat button. Shy Boy was a hit song..........it would not be today. I took a lesson with Gregg and told him how much that disc meant to me. He's a great guy and much more humble thn most will ever know!


Hope this helps

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
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http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Losing Terry Kath in the late 70s was a huge blow.
No question. Kath's vocals alone were worth the price of admission.

Re: Jon Fariss, I remember reading an interview in Modern Drummer back when INXS was at its commercial peak. I think he asked the interviewer, "Are you sure drummers are going to want to read about me?" or something like that. One of those cats who only played to serve the music, and did so very well. I didn't necessarily appreciate that type of thing 23 years ago, but I figured it out eventually.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Okay DED, bad example. There have been some fine Aussie drummers who haven't been on the radar because they're too far away from the action but INXS were did do well overseas. Yes, it seems that he got what he wished for - non-adulation by drummers - but that hardly matters if the music is happening.

Steve Gadd always gets mentions on these pages and is one who does receive well-deserved adulation ... just saw this clip of him playing bop in a wow manner ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsz3mrnIBd0

8Mile, what songs did TK sing?
 
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gf2564

Guest
I actually think the fall of that band artistically was a lot earlier than some say.

IMO---The first 3 Chicago albums were as good as anything that ever went down in rock. I remember when I was 10 or so going into my old man's LP collection and finding Chicago Transist Authority with Introduction, Beginnings, Questions 67 and 68. That band was great and because of guitarist Terry Kath, sounded more like a rock band as opposed to Blood Sweat and Tears' polished horn section and more careful sound...although I thought David Clayton Thomas was an amazing singer and I liked Seraphine and Columby just about equally.

Then I think it went downhill. That Carnegie Hall set was lousy and sloppy, then Chicago V had that awful Saturday in the Park song which I think more than anything else turned those guys into a beach band. But I have the first 3 albums and will always keep them. Seraphine sounds great on them. I always thought that when Buddy Rich was trying rock he was thinking in Seraphine terms, which is funny seeing as how Seraphine had actually adapted the Rich style to fit to a rock format. I always thought that whole thing was pretty ironic.
Matt, I agree that Carnegie Hall was a terrible recording and included some very sloopy play from everyone. I guess we could debate as to how much of this was a function of the technology at the time (or lack there of), the producers (I've heard from some band members of recording people making "adjustments" right up on stage, in the truck, etc., without any rhyme or reason; could be "their story/excuse"), fatigue (Chicago toured excessively for many years, especially in the beginning), and/or the "chemicals" that were readily available during those times.
Having said all this, there are some incredible performances on that four album recording! Seraphine's playing, in particular, was smoking pretty much throughout. Kath had some great moments on there, as well. I think it also showed what a skilled bass player Cetera was. (before he became known as the sappy ballad singer!)
Some people say the "new" remastered Carnegie Hall that came out a few years back was a tremendous improvement; I am not sure I agree with that. Maybe it's because I'm old school (and just plain old!) and prefer live music, but that recording is still one of my favorite recordings. Warts and all, It does show the raw, creative talent this band once was as opposed to what they became (and most people think of when Chicago is mentioned) at the end of the '70's and beyond.
While Chicago V marked a distinct move to become more commercially viable, I thought it and the next two albums had some very good music on them. Chicago VII probably was the album that showed how diverse their playing and song writing was. Many different genres of music and chances for individual talents to shine.
Sorry to hijack the tread; I will retreat back to lurker mode. I do appreciate your thoughts and insights Matt! (and those of others, as well)
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
Matt, I agree that Carnegie Hall was a terrible recording and included some very sloopy play from everyone. I guess we could debate as to how much of this was a function of the technology at the time (or lack there of), the producers (I've heard from some band members of recording people making "adjustments" right up on stage, in the truck, etc., without any rhyme or reason; could be "their story/excuse"), fatigue (Chicago toured excessively for many years, especially in the beginning), and/or the "chemicals" that were readily available during those times.
Having said all this, there are some incredible performances on that four album recording! Seraphine's playing, in particular, was smoking pretty much throughout. Kath had some great moments on there, as well. I think it also showed what a skilled bass player Cetera was. (before he became known as the sappy ballad singer!)
Some people say the "new" remastered Carnegie Hall that came out a few years back was a tremendous improvement; I am not sure I agree with that. Maybe it's because I'm old school (and just plain old!) and prefer live music, but that recording is still one of my favorite recordings. Warts and all, It does show the raw, creative talent this band once was as opposed to what they became (and most people think of when Chicago is mentioned) at the end of the '70's and beyond.
While Chicago V marked a distinct move to become more commercially viable, I thought it and the next two albums had some very good music on them. Chicago VII probably was the album that showed how diverse their playing and song writing was. Many different genres of music and chances for individual talents to shine.
Sorry to hijack the tread; I will retreat back to lurker mode. I do appreciate your thoughts and insights Matt! (and those of others, as well)
re: Carnegie Hall---I agree that Seraphine was really good on the whole thing and many of the other points you made. But I think by the time this box set came out, the genre these guys helped create had evolved to an entirely higher level performance wise, especially when BS&T, Tower of Power and Chase were using famous world class studio horn players who were performing both creatively and cleanly with uniformly consistent performances even with all the drugs.

And as great as the Chicago horn line was /and still is/ they've never been those kinds of players. Trumpeter Lee Loughnane is central to this point. Back then he was a solid player, but it would be unfair to compare him to a first call NYC studio player like BS&T's Lew Soloff or an immortal lead trumpet player like Bill Chase. The same can be said for Parazader who may have been a gifted classical clarinetist but still would never get anyone to forget Fred Lipsius /BS&T/ or Lennie Pickett /Tower of Power/ as a saxophonist. It's also cool how youtube gives you a chance to compare the live shows of all those late 60s early 70s bands. I think when you do that, the results are clear. Now as rhythm sections go I always liked Chicago more. For my money Kath always sounded great while Cetera was an underrated bass player. And yeah in those early days Seraphine especially, was a beast.

Chicago V-7---I agree there was some good music on those recordings with the emphasis being on some. On the first three everything was good. I just think that with Saturday in the Park, they jumped the shark and the whole thing was never the same musically.

Yeah, you're right this Chicago secondary discussion was a minor derail, but an interesting one that I don't think really hurt anything.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Now as rhythm sections go I always liked Chicago more. For my money Kath always sounded great while Cetera was an underrated bass player. And yeah in those early days Seraphine especially, was a beast.
I always liked Bobby Colomby too and found his feel jazzy feel pretty similar to Danny S's, tho' early Chicago seemed to give Danny more chance to open up. I think of Chicago in a similar way to how I see The Tubes - their early albums were brilliant (with a class drummer in Prairie Prince) but later on they played sooky and bland commercial music - and made some real money. Ai ai ai!
 

unfunkyfooted

Silver Member
UFF, you're probably right about Chicago. When they took out the jazzy and edgy bits they poured out the beer and only offered up froth. I don't think losing the personality of Danny's drumming helped either.

But I can't find the "ba-doomp" lick you're referring to in those links. Can you help out an old lady and give me the times when it's done? :)

DED, I always thought Jon played those things as one track rather than overdubbed. It's all do-able (which of course doesn't mean it was done :). But yeah, some of the quirks that really made the song for me were missing live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_yeVpAVDXs). That ultra-staccato sound in the studio is very unforgiving - your timing has to be spot on (eg. I Send A Message). Michael Urbano was perhaps one of the best drummers of the 80s bands. Tight as a fish's behind but he was never an influence on me.

80s drumming is the style that caused me to quit playing - having to play fat monster backbeats super-clean and to strip out so much of the ghosting and little musical interactions that I pretty well live for when I play. I never played more tightly than I did back then - every note was scripted - and I never found drumming to be such a chore. Once I realised I couldn't "make it" and avoid the dreaded normal 9-to-5 existence and all the family crap there was nothing to hold me.

I consider myself a 60s/70s kind of drummer influenced by people of those times, so every time I play someone a track of my old bands and someone says it sounds 80s I die a little lol
in the MSFB song, the Ba-Dooomp is playing in the ride out starting at 4:50. it is also played on the previous sections at/ or after about 1:50 2:50 and 3:50. i´m not sure if that is the C section of the song, but alot of the song´s solos are played over that section. 1-2-3-4 Ba-Dooomp-2-3-4. MFSB were the house band of Philadelphia International Records.

the same lick is added for emphasis in the INXS song ¨Burn For You¨.

regarding playing overdubs as one part...that´s how we get better. i didn´t know that there are two guitar parts on the intro lick of America´s ¨Ventura Highway¨. i always thought that it was one guitar (and played it that way) til i heard it in stereo one day. one guitar was panned hard left and the other was panned hard right. THEY WERE ACTUALLY PLAYING DUAL HARMONIES !!!!!!!!! when i was growing up, there were no synthesizers or keyboards in local bands, so i had to cover the lead and rhythm guitar parts plus whatever keyboard lines were important to the groove AND whatever incidental fills and farts and bells and whistles might be an integral part of the presentation. i can play the Black Crow´s ¨Twice As Hard¨ with one guitar (3 Parts) as well as Alice In Chains´ ¨Damn That River¨ (also 3 Parts).

regarding Tim Farris live....i was looking through some ¨Don´t Change¨ clips just last week and it doesn´t even sound like the same drummer that´s on the recording. in fact, it seemed that of the 3 or 4 clips i listened to, there were two distictly different drummers even on those live clips...neither of whom sounded like the studio recording.
 
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gf2564

Guest
re: Carnegie Hall---I agree that Seraphine was really good on the whole thing and many of the other points you made. But I think by the time this box set came out, the genre these guys helped create had evolved to an entirely higher level performance wise, especially when BS&T, Tower of Power and Chase were using famous world class studio horn players who were performing both creatively and cleanly with uniformly consistent performances even with all the drugs.

And as great as the Chicago horn line was /and still is/ they've never been those kinds of players. Trumpeter Lee Loughnane is central to this point. Back then he was a solid player, but it would be unfair to compare him to a first call NYC studio player like BS&T's Lew Soloff or an immortal lead trumpet player like Bill Chase. The same can be said for Parazader who may have been a gifted classical clarinetist but still would never get anyone to forget Fred Lipsius /BS&T/ or Lennie Pickett /Tower of Power/ as a saxophonist. It's also cool how youtube gives you a chance to compare the live shows of all those late 60s early 70s bands. I think when you do that, the results are clear. Now as rhythm sections go I always liked Chicago more. For my money Kath always sounded great while Cetera was an underrated bass player. And yeah in those early days Seraphine especially, was a beast.

Chicago V-7---I agree there was some good music on those recordings with the emphasis being on some. On the first three everything was good. I just think that with Saturday in the Park, they jumped the shark and the whole thing was never the same musically.

Yeah, you're right this Chicago secondary discussion was a minor derail, but an interesting one that I don't think really hurt anything.
Yeah, for a band that was known as a "rock band with horns" (at least in the beginning), in my opinion, the "weakest" musicians of the group were the horn players by far. Robert Lamn was not very strong on keyboards either, but he was a heck of a song writer during those early years. It is great to see those old youtube videos of various artist of my youth!
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I always liked Bobby Colomby too and found his feel jazzy feel pretty similar to Danny S's, tho' early Chicago seemed to give Danny more chance to open up. I think of Chicago in a similar way to how I see The Tubes - their early albums were brilliant (with a class drummer in Prairie Prince) but later on they played sooky and bland commercial music - and made some real money. Ai ai ai!
Ha, funny how this thread's discussing 2 of my five choices, Prince & Seraphine. KIS got ya thinkin' huh?
 
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