This might be a stroke of genius or...

Salty Dog

Senior Member
So I'm very tempted to round off the bearing edges on my Ludwig Keystone but I don't have the stones to actually do it (or have it done by a pro). So I thought how can I achieve this without actually modifying the shells and then it hit me.
What if I found flexible rubber tubes of fairly small diameter slit it length wise so that it creates an opening to be able to snap it on all around the existing bearing edge?

Can this work? Any drum makers out there that can validate this?
 

Salty Dog

Senior Member
Interesting.......

What I like about it is it would be easy to try. And it is not a permanent modification.


.
...and very inexpensive. Obviously thickness of certain shells might kill this idea off the bat but still worth a try. I'm assuming temporary wood bearing edges hoops could be a more professional solution but then it also comes with the headache of making it fit on a shell that is not perfectly round.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
I don't think this idea will work. First, the thickness of the tubing will have to be significant enough to not lose its round shape when under tension (so somewhere in the 1/16" thick minimum) and secondly, this additional thickness (1/8" total because its on all sides of the drum) will increase the diameter of the drum to the point that a head will not fit over the tubing. Third, if this idea did actually work the tubing would grip the under side of the head and cause all sorts of tuning nightmares because the head is not able to slide over the edge and naturally conform to it.

In the end, this idea wont work. If you don't have the proper tools to cut your own edges, and you don't have the stones to do it yourself, then its more cost effective to have them professionally done. You can probably get away with only re-cutting the batter side and leaving the reso's at the standard rounded double 45 degree cut. This should give you a bit more overtone control and shell resonance, but not suck all the sustain out of the drum.
 

Salty Dog

Senior Member
I don't think this idea will work. First, the thickness of the tubing will have to be significant enough to not lose its round shape when under tension (so somewhere in the 1/16" thick minimum) and secondly, this additional thickness (1/8" total because its on all sides of the drum) will increase the diameter of the drum to the point that a head will not fit over the tubing. Third, if this idea did actually work the tubing would grip the under side of the head and cause all sorts of tuning nightmares because the head is not able to slide over the edge and naturally conform to it.

In the end, this idea wont work. If you don't have the proper tools to cut your own edges, and you don't have the stones to do it yourself, then its more cost effective to have them professionally done. You can probably get away with only re-cutting the batter side and leaving the reso's at the standard rounded double 45 degree cut. This should give you a bit more overtone control and shell resonance, but not suck all the sustain out of the drum.
Yes I agree the thickness of the tube most probably won't make it work but let's look at it from the perspective that this idea started out with a need of a risk free solution for getting rounded edges on my shells. Imagine I do get the stones to have it professionally done and it turns out terrible both in craftsmanship and sound then I'm really screwed.
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
this additional thickness (1/8" total because its on all sides of the drum) will increase the diameter of the drum to the point that a head will not fit over the tubing.
Oh Yeah, I forgot about this.

Your right, the head will probably not fit !

.
 

FreDrummer

Silver Member
Here's another thought...this comes from the world of using real acoustic drums on an acoustic-to-electronic conversion. Place a layer (or two, or three) of good-quality electrical tape over the bearing edges. In the A-E world, this prevents the mesh electronic heads from making an impression on the bearing edges. But, it might give you a low-cost solution to "try before you buy." I recently removed the electrical tape from some A-E toms after it had been on there -- no kidding -- for 5 or 6 years and it did not leave any residue or impact on the bearing edge. Just make sure you use the good quality stuff, like the 3M tape that costs $4-5 a roll, not the .99 cent stuff...

Just a thought...
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
Maybe these question should be asked before we go further. What are you not liking about the sound that your drums currently produce? What type of sound are you looking for? What type of music do you play? What heads do you currently use? What heads have you used in the past?

Answering these questions will help people better respond to you concern of cutting new edges.
 

Ron_M

Senior Member
This has been done. There was a (now defunct) company who offered just what you're looking for.
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
It's much simpler than all those crazy ideas.
Expanding on what FreDrummer was talking about by using tape over the edges, Cake pan conversions fit right into the drum and the heads fit right over the cake pans. All you have to do is cut the rim off the cake pan and you have a roundover bearing edge that fits on the shell. The only problem is that it's made out of metal and won't be an accurate indication of what a wood roundover edge would sound like because metal is harder.
 

Salty Dog

Senior Member
Maybe these question should be asked before we go further. What are you not liking about the sound that your drums currently produce? What type of sound are you looking for? What type of music do you play? What heads do you currently use? What heads have you used in the past?

Answering these questions will help people better respond to you concern of cutting new edges.
No Tommy you have this all wrong well in part. Yes ultimately it's all about achieving a sound I'm looking for but it's mostly about experimenting with stuff and I don't want these experiments to become a permanent mistake. But your question has merit and it's a logical approach so I will answer it: I'm looking for a low fat sound especially because I play in a room that's small with bad acoustics and the sustain & projection of my Keystones are too much to deal with. I don't want them muffled to the point where they're dead. I would actually prefer to keep them open. If that makes any sense.
I play mostly rock but trying to learn jazz. Hi have the original Ludwig Coated Weathermasters on in medium weight. Thanks for your help.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I'd try different heads first.

Keystones are engineered to be bright and cutting, and the medium 1-ply heads are just reinforcing that.

I'd go to at least a 2-ply coated head, or even some kind of pre-muffled head like the Performance II/Pinstripe/EC2.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
No Tommy you have this all wrong well in part. Yes ultimately it's all about achieving a sound I'm looking for but it's mostly about experimenting with stuff and I don't want these experiments to become a permanent mistake. But your question has merit and it's a logical approach so I will answer it: I'm looking for a low fat sound especially because I play in a room that's small with bad acoustics and the sustain & projection of my Keystones are too much to deal with. I don't want them muffled to the point where they're dead. I would actually prefer to keep them open. If that makes any sense.
I play mostly rock but trying to learn jazz. Hi have the original Ludwig Coated Weathermasters on in medium weight. Thanks for your help.
If you want to experiment, don't do it on a $1500 kit. Experiment on cheap kits, preferably cheap used kits so you aren't spending much money. There are no simple swaps for bearing edges out there. The NuEdg bearing edges never took hold of the market, probably because you needed to sand down your current bearing edges flat to seat their edges. Electrical tape and cake pans wont give you a proper representation of the sound because they muffle and isolate the head from direct contact with the shell. The only true way to know the effect on the sound is to just do it for real.

However, I think you can achieve the sound you are looking for with a head swap. Low and fat with shorter sustain would probably mean a 2 ply batter head (I would recommend a coated Evans G2 to start) with a thin single ply resonant head (I recommend an Evans Reso 7). This should give you low and fat with shorter sustain due to the coated batter head and the thin reso head. No need to add muffling unless you think its still too much ringing. For Jazz, you will have to swap the batter head to a single ply (I recommend a coated Evans G1). The reso head should be fine. This will allow you to tune up the heads tighter and give you a nice open ring without them choking out.
 

Salty Dog

Senior Member
If you want to experiment, don't do it on a $1500 kit. Experiment on cheap kits, preferably cheap used kits so you aren't spending much money. There are no simple swaps for bearing edges out there. The NuEdg bearing edges never took hold of the market, probably because you needed to sand down your current bearing edges flat to seat their edges. Electrical tape and cake pans wont give you a proper representation of the sound because they muffle and isolate the head from direct contact with the shell. The only true way to know the effect on the sound is to just do it for real.

However, I think you can achieve the sound you are looking for with a head swap. Low and fat with shorter sustain would probably mean a 2 ply batter head (I would recommend a coated Evans G2 to start) with a thin single ply resonant head (I recommend an Evans Reso 7). This should give you low and fat with shorter sustain due to the coated batter head and the thin reso head. No need to add muffling unless you think its still too much ringing. For Jazz, you will have to swap the batter head to a single ply (I recommend a coated Evans G1). The reso head should be fine. This will allow you to tune up the heads tighter and give you a nice open ring without them choking out.
Thanks for the advice Tommy. I will definitely look into it just so I cover all my options what would be the equivalent if I decided to go with REMO heads instead?
 

Salty Dog

Senior Member
I'd try different heads first.

Keystones are engineered to be bright and cutting, and the medium 1-ply heads are just reinforcing that.

I'd go to at least a 2-ply coated head, or even some kind of pre-muffled head like the Performance II/Pinstripe/EC2.
Thanks Winston, looks like swapping heads is really the only sensible option to actually altering the shells.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Everyone seems to have overlooked that head-shell contact is a very important factor in the resulting sound. Tubing or tape interrupts that contact to varying degrees.

That said, I had all of my Keystone rack tom outer edges rounded a bit (by Bill Detamore) in order to get a little more head-shell contact and fatness from them - worked like a charm! Nice head combo is G1 (or 12 or 14) batter with Evans' new Reso7 on the bottom.

Bermuda
 
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