Things you've not learned to do

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Can you please explain to people who teach today. What you just said.
I know; some instructors can be so pedantic that they often forget the reason many learners are drawn to drums: to play them, not to discuss them academically. Even so, it can be quite valuable to be able to name those strange time signatures when you come across them. Doing so just isn't necessary for most players, as long as they possess natural feel and a reliable internal clock. I'd encourage you to learn as much as you need to learn to suit your own goals. Only you know what your objectives are behind a drum set.
 

moodman

Well-known member
This is music not Law school. If you want to put your self in a box with all these rules. That should work til it doesn't.
So, since this is a drum forum, not a ham radio forum or a Law forum, we shouldn't discuss DRUM technique, things we've learned as DRUMmers, dynamics etc. We should instead wah-wah about those that do, ask some rookie questions and declare that it's all BS, Julliard, Berkeley, all the drum disciplines from all over the world, every drum teacher that ever lived, all the books for self improvement. You shouldn't have to actually do stuff to learn drums, cuz there are no rules.
Oh well
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
So, since this is a drum forum, not a ham radio forum or a Law forum, we shouldn't discuss DRUM technique, things we've learned as DRUMmers, dynamics etc. We should instead wah-wah about those that do, ask some rookie questions and declare that it's all BS, Julliard, Berkeley, all the drum disciplines from all over the world, every drum teacher that ever lived, all the books for self improvement. You shouldn't have to actually do stuff to learn drums, cuz there are no rules.
Oh well
A lot of know-nothingism on the forum these days.
 
I really don't understand how so many musicians don't want to know anything about theory because they feel like it takes away from their freedom of expression or listening skills. Sure, if you only think about stickings, scales and motions during playing, that's not so great but it doesn't take that long to understand the basics of notation. Then you can still forget about it while playing. I know some people that can't read notes or don't know the notes on their instrument by their names but who still sound good at what they do. But switching anything is often asking for trouble.
Of course there are guys like Art Blakey or Dennis Chambers who play by ear and they are great but they've been playing so much and are so dedicated and good listeners that they can make it work. I feel like these are a rare breed however.
Some bad experiences: Guitarists that can't play 8th note off beats without always plucking the root with the thumb on the downbeat while working on constant 16ths at 200 bpm, playing triplets as 1e+ or 1+a, not being able to keep their place in 3/4 without a constant 1 on the bass drum, getting lost in a Blues after 40 years of playing for fun, playing pentatonics exclusively and claiming they go by feel and ear and how it's so superior to learning anything else, claiming that the metronome is primitive/robotic...
 

planoranger

Junior Member
A lot of know-nothingism on the forum these days.
If that's not bad enough...it's also "Don't wanna-know-nothingism" (C.M. Jones will yank my head off for using a double negative :oops:)
It's not only here...take a look at many of the "instructional" YouTube videos.

I really don't understand how so many musicians don't want to know anything about theory because they feel like it takes away from their freedom of expression or listening skills....
I find having a solid "learned background" to be MORE freeing. It's allowed me to play in so many different musical situations, rather than being locked into one musical genre. I'm not criticizing anybody who WANTS to play in one style...that's fine. All I'm saying is I was fortunate that my musical training allowed me to NOT sit at home on a Friday or Saturday night because I could accept any gig for which I was qualified.

Maybe "fortunate" is not the correct word...someone once said that "Luck is the residue of design".
 

Captain Bash

Silver Member
  • I learned not rely on hearing the singer or guitarist particularly well at gigs. A good monitor mix is a luxury not necessity.
  • I learned not to stop playing, even when the powers blown, the singers dissolved etc.....the drummer can keep the ship afloat whilst others are floundering.
  • I learned not to go out the blocks too hard, pace yourself
  • I learned that I sound better (on recordings) if I play about 70% of what I think is required and leave the rest out.
 

moodman

Well-known member
I never really learned how to play Timpani. Seems like a cool skill.
I got promoted from beginning band to advanced band, only because they needed someone to roll the tympani during the national anthem, I had a good open roll, thus I was delivered. But, yeah, I never really learned tympani either.
The last time I checked Tympani prices, the Dresdens were $36K each, you can set yourself up for $148k (plus mallets)
 
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opentune

Platinum Member
I've always been way too tied to my left bass drum. In music the first rule is there are no rules.
This is music not Law school. If you want to put your self in a box with all these rules. That should work til it doesn't.
No offense intended here but one may find, however, taking this stance will be extremely limiting to your musicianship down the road.
For sake of debate, I can't really think of a 'no rules' music or even a 'no rules' drummer that did work out well. Can you?
Even a wild one like Keith Moon had a few rules (like time and meter).
 

moodman

Well-known member
No offense intended here but one may find, however, taking this stance will be extremely limiting to your musicianship down the road.
For sake of debate, I can't really think of a 'no rules' music or even a 'no rules' drummer that did work out well. Can you?
Even a wild one like Keith Moon had a few rules (like time and meter).
Moon took lessons from Carlo Little, Screamin' Lord Sutch's drummer.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
Ya after my comment i thought maybe the Velvet Underground was a good example of 'no rules' music that made impact. But for any drummers no impact.
 
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nolibos

Well-known member
No offense intended here but one may find, however, taking this stance will be extremely limiting to your musicianship down the road.
For sake of debate, I can't really think of a 'no rules' music or even a 'no rules' drummer that did work out well. Can you?
Even a wild one like Keith Moon had a few rules (like time and meter).
Animal from the Muppets comes to mind. They had to use chains to try to control his "out there" style.
 

grparty

Member
Whenever I hear people say something along the lines of not wanting to study music because it’ll box them in, how it’ll limit their creativity, etc, I try to play some of the Shaggs for them - a band of 3 teenage sisters who wrote their own songs and recorded an album 1968 without knowing much music theory, the ‘correct’ way to play their instruments.

To me, this album is the most successful that approach to music can be when taken to the extreme, and most people don’t like the resulting music. I love that album, but if someone plays like that in almost any other normal musical situation, it’s not gonna work.

Also, there’s a big difference between not having knowledge about how music works and ‘no rules’ music. It’s best not to think of music theory as a set of rules anyways - it’s more descriptive and depends on what music you’re describing.

 

GOOSE72

Well-known member
Whenever I hear people say something along the lines of not wanting to study music because it’ll box them in, how it’ll limit their creativity, etc, I try to play some of the Shaggs for them - a band of 3 teenage sisters who wrote their own songs and recorded an album 1968 without knowing much music theory, the ‘correct’ way to play their instruments.

To me, this album is the most successful that approach to music can be when taken to the extreme, and most people don’t like the resulting music. I love that album, but if someone plays like that in almost any other normal musical situation, it’s not gonna work.

Also, there’s a big difference between not having knowledge about how music works and ‘no rules’ music. It’s best not to think of music theory as a set of rules anyways - it’s more descriptive and depends on what music you’re describing.


How would you define studying music?
 

grparty

Member
How would you define studying music?
I can’t give an all-encompassing definition of how to study music - there are a bunch of paths. I mean that I’ve heard the ‘learning-how-to-do-things-will-box-me-in” argument being used against things like learning about music theory, taking lessons, and transcribing. I don’t buy that getting deeper knowledge of music that you like is a hinderance
 

opentune

Platinum Member
To me, this album is the most successful that approach to music can be when taken to the extreme, and most people don’t like the resulting music. I love that album, but if someone plays like that in almost any other normal musical situation, it’s not gonna work.
Well, definitely not 'boxed in' were they, the Shaggs. A depressing listen, unless you read the humourous youtube comments, one which fittingly describes it as the first/only song in 68/36 time. Nonethless, I'm glad something like this was captured on record.
 
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